Winning hand, but was it a winning call?

joshyb20

joshyb20

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Ok, I've been away for a while, just started playing again the other day. Well, I pumped in 150 at FT, where I proceeded to lose 100 within like 6 hours. I noticed a major, and I mean major, flaw in the way I was playing. In the next 24 hours, I worked it back up to 190 :) Today I decided to play a sng, having won one last night right before bed, and being knocked out of the previous one on a severe bad beat. In the sng I had no hands at all until it was down to 4. Just folded until then. In a 10 hand span, I had 22 44 66 99 2x and KK 2x Just an unbelievable stretch. I worked my way from the cellar to the top real quick. Then we were down to two, and I had a good lead. Well, I got dealt QQ, and I bet a small bet, it was a very tight game btw. he called. The flop came something like 2 7 J rainbow. He bet a good sized bet, and I raised, and he went all in over the top. Well, I called, and he turned over J8s. Hit an 8 on the river, and put me down considerably. We took turns folding, and eventually I got 44. I needed to make a move, so I ended up going all in over the top preflop, and was called w/ 33, and they held. It continued to be tight, and even, until I was dealt this hand. I ended up winning the hand, but as I'm trying to fine tune my game again, I was wondering what you all think. Was it just the continuation of my hot streak over the last day and a half? Or did I make the right move. Keep in mind, my purpose in this hand in the first place was to maintain my strength and image. After investing that much in the pot in a really tight game, I was afraid that blowing my image, and a good chunk of my chips could be lethal. So let me know your opinions of this hand:



Table 1 - 50/100 - No Limit Hold'em - 15:50:52 ET - 2006/05/23
Seat 1: Derck (4,180)
Seat 2: Joshyb20 (4,820)
Joshyb20 posts the small blind of 50
Derck posts the big blind of 100
The button is in seat #2
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to Joshyb20 [Ad Js]
Joshyb20 raises to 200
Derck raises to 600
Joshyb20 raises to 1,000
Derck calls 400
*** FLOP *** [8s 2h Th]
Derck bets 3,180, and is all in
Joshyb20 calls 3,180
Derck shows [Qd 9d]
Joshyb20 shows [Ad Js]
*** TURN *** [8s 2h Th] [6c]
*** RIVER *** [8s 2h Th 6c] [Kc]
Derck shows King Queen high
Joshyb20 shows Ace King high
Joshyb20 wins the pot (8,360) with Ace King high
Derck stands up
Joshyb20 stands up
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 8,360 | Rake 0
Board: [8s 2h Th 6c Kc]
Seat 1: Derck (big blind) showed [Qd 9d] and lost with King Queen high
Seat 2: Joshyb20 (small blind) showed [Ad Js] and won (8,360) with Ace King high
 
Tammy

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I do think that was a dangerous call, and you got really lucky. I would have folded after the post-flop push. You had no hand and no real draws; your opponent could have had anything. Even 7/2 would have severely crippled you (not that it was at all likely that he had that, just making a comparison). Considering your stack size in relation to the blind level, you still would have been in good shape had you just folded. If he would have hit his hand, you would have basically been done. Fortunately, your streak held up. ;)
 
Dorkus Malorkus

Dorkus Malorkus

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Why did you minraise twice preflop?
 
Coryan

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RAISE THE ROOF!

I agree that the call after the flop was not a good one...you got lucky that your opponent was bluffing w/ an overcard and a gutshot. I would have folded against his post-flop push.

I am also curious about the minimum raises. The only time I use minimum raises is if my opponent has shown that he is willing to fold to them in the past. I definately would not RR only the minimum amount.

I believe that a raise must put the question to your opponent..."Just how much do you like your hand?" A minimum raise just asks for a small donation to see the flop. Again, I will not raise less than 3X the previous bet unless he has demonstrated that he will fold to a minimum bet.

Oh, other question: What did you mean by, "Keep in mind, my purpose in this hand in the first place was to maintain my strength and image. After investing that much in the pot in a really tight game, I was afraid that blowing my image, and a good chunk of my chips could be lethal."? You invested 25% of your stack to maintain an image? Was your call of the allin so that you would not blow your image? I don't understand. What does your image matter if you lost this hand?
 
joshyb20

joshyb20

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The reason for the minimum raise was that it was the way the game was going. I was anticipating him folding after the 1000 bet. When he called, however, I knew he didn't have much. A low-mid pair at best. He would have gone all in instead of calling. So he was unsure of his hand. I believed he too was trying to maintain his stack and maintain image. Also when he pushed in without even a check raise or a bait and push, I was almost certain he had nothing. That sealed it for me as to why I should call. He tended to slow play and check raise everytime he had a strong hand. And with the low flop I was sure the absolute best hand he could have, and I doubted it was the case, and that was A 10. Of course that would have dominated me, and left me with what? 3 outs? but aside from that, I felt my odds were pretty good he had nothing, and I was right. I was very lucky it held up, but there were reasons for all that you guys mentioned. As for the small raises, I'm probably giving away more than I'd like to but I use minimal raises quite frequently, with strategy behind it. But like I said, I really anticipated him folding or pushing in to the 1000 raise, and when he just called, it just screamed I don't like my hand to me. Let's just say, if I was first to act after the flop, I would have pushed in myself wanting to just take the pot. And I would have taken it. He was trying to bluff me off of the pot, as I would have. And I caught it.
 
joshyb20

joshyb20

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"What does your image matter if you lost this hand?"

At that point, I was committed as long as I was 70% sure I had the best hand imo, and I was. I was sure he had nothing or a low-mid pair. If he had the low pair, he would have taken it, and the sng, but he didn't and AJ held up.
 
Coryan

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Congrats on winning that hand and making a good read.

When heads up, I definately can't make reads like this...especially online and after seeing only 70-100 hands played. I would have been very unsure whether his push meant he had a small pocket pair or just second or third pair on the board. Since this is heads up, he could have been holding any of the cards that flopped. Then his push is an indication of weakness...but his weak hand could still beat A-high.

You had six outs (if he'd had a pair) and apparently an awesome read on this guy, so you made the call and won the hand...CONGRATS!
 
joshyb20

joshyb20

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thanks, and I was very lucky that the guy I was facing made it to heads up because of my read on him. I will admit, heads up is probably the weakest facet of my game. and I try to improve it frequently. If the other guy made it to heads up, I probably wouldn't have won, and I probably wouldn't have made the reraise preflop to be honest.
 
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