When slowplaying goes wrong..

[premierplayer]

pokerstars Game #11189437618: Tournament #56765990, $5.00+$0.50 Hold'em No Limit - Level II (15/30) - 2007/07/28 - 21:57:37 (ET)
Table '56765990 1' 9-max Seat #1 is the button
Seat 1: sullyboom (1180 in chips)
Seat 2: Mrman8520 (1300 in chips)
Seat 3: Carlsey13 (1445 in chips)
Seat 4: vcPoKeRpUnK (2300 in chips)
Seat 5: premierplayr (1850 in chips)
Seat 7: Dodger Dogg (1260 in chips)
Seat 8: ProfessorIvy (2585 in chips)
Seat 9: GBA47 (1580 in chips)
Mrman8520: posts small blind 15
Carlsey13: posts big blind 30
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to premierplayr [Tc 5c]
vcPoKeRpUnK: folds
premierplayr: calls 30
Dodger Dogg: raises 30 to 60
ProfessorIvy: folds
GBA47: folds
sullyboom: folds
Mrman8520: folds
Carlsey13 said, "i'll sell ya my credit card??"
Carlsey13: calls 30
premierplayr: calls 30
*** FLOP *** [Kh Ts Ac]
Carlsey13: checks
premierplayr said, "lmao"
premierplayr: bets 30
Dodger Dogg: calls 30
Carlsey13: folds
*** TURN *** [Kh Ts Ac] [2c]
premierplayr: checks
Mrman8520 said, "when i did mine, PS deposit site said only prepaid credit cards will work, didn't say anything about no US"
Dodger Dogg: bets 90
premierplayr: calls 90
*** RIVER *** [Kh Ts Ac 2c] [8c]
premierplayr: bets 250
Dodger Dogg: raises 250 to 500
premierplayr: raises 1170 to 1670 and is all-in
Dodger Dogg: calls 580 and is all-in
*** SHOW DOWN ***
premierplayr: shows [Tc 5c] (a flush, Ace high)
Dodger Dogg: shows [Ad Kc] (two pair, Aces and Kings)
Dodger Dogg is sitting out
premierplayr collected 2595 from pot
premierplayr said, "theres ur flush"
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 2595 | Rake 0
Board [Kh Ts Ac 2c 8c]
Seat 1: sullyboom (button) folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 2: Mrman8520 (small blind) folded before Flop
Seat 3: Carlsey13 (big blind) folded on the Flop
Seat 4: vcPoKeRpUnK folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 5: premierplayr showed [Tc 5c] and won (2595) with a flush, Ace high
Seat 7: Dodger Dogg showed [Ad Kc] and lost with two pair, Aces and Kings
Seat 8: ProfessorIvy folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 9: GBA47 folded before Flop (didn't bet)

Works for me!

 

[zxcvbnm123]

lol that is what he gets for trying to slow play AK, fish totally deserve it . Nice hand.

 

[bob_tiger]

if i was him i would definitely make a big raise pre flop and a big bet on flop to make sure nobody hits a flush. it is a dangerous flop for him though there is a chance of someone having a str8 or a flush draw.

 

[pstevo123]

slowplay

i use to love to slowplay in real poker or on the interent... but as i played more and more hands i learn to bet once in a while becasue a lot of my slow play got beat on the river

 

[jeffred1111]

Preflop is horrible, but once he has flopped top two pairs, he cannot start to get worried about runner runner flushes or straights hitting, that is completly ridiculous. His slowplay on the flop was fine, he doesn't want to boot out the chaser by betting big or he risks killing any action he might have gotten out of his big hand. He might've gotten more chips in by raising, but since he didn't, the pot is dry and he stands to gain more by waiting (two very important factors in favor of slowplaying).

Turn is even more horrible than preflop. Now that the board isn't rainbow, he must bet bigger:
1) To give improper odds to chase
2) To get some value out of his monster, because any action he might get on the river will be by a hand that has him beaten or someone who has a big hand (unlikely given the turn, wich is a blank unless someone has a runner runner flush). A set of 8's might slowplay this also and come alive on the river.

River is the worst of all: when slwoplaying, you always risk (small risk when executed properly), of getting beaten. This is a fold/call situation. Villain raising and then calling the all-in is the definition of donkmove. Who will reraise all-in on such a board with anything less than a set or a flush: no one.

Addendum: since villain called the minraise preflop, he might've been better served to fake pot stealing instead of slowplaying since his hand was very well disguised and people probably would put him on a weak king or a smaller pp. At least I would.

 

[haffikaffi]

Some people just dont know how to slowplay.. You cant afford players to get free cards all the time to draw a better hand then you got.. its just foolish.

 

[Mvemjsunpx]

I thought premierplayer's & Dodger Dogg's play were both pretty bad on this hand.

premierplayer:
1. Why did you limp in early position w/ T5s? The blinds were low so I guess it's not bad to do something like this occasionally, as long as you know what you're doing post-flop.
2. Why did you min-bet the flop? In my experience, there is nothing more worthless in NL Hold'em than the weenie-bet. There are way too many things that have the pot odds to call, even many garbage hands.
3. You sucked out & busted him. Luckily, he played bad enough to give you the opportunity.

Dodger Dogg:
1. Back to the weenie criticism. What's the point of min-raising pre-flop? There isn't one unless the blinds are ridiculously high.
2. He flopped two pair & slowplayed. I can see slowplaying in this situation, especially after premierplayer min-bet. However, two-pair is not a monster, so you have to be careful, especially since QJ would have flopped a straight. I would have bet more so I could see what the others would do & where they were at. A single Q or J would have a gutshot & you want to get drawing hands of the way.
3. He only bet less than 40% of the pot on the turn when there were 2 clubs. Most anyone with a halfway-decent flush draw will call there.
4. He shoves the river with 3 clubs on the board. I probably would have just called premier player's bet.

 

[jeffred1111]

He flopped two pair & slowplayed. I can see slowplaying in this situation, especially after premierplayer min-bet. However, two-pair is not a monster, so you have to be careful, especially since QJ would have flopped a straight. I would have bet more so I could see what the others would do & where they were at. A single Q or J would have a gutshot & you want to get drawing hands of the way.

I beg to differ. We don't want them out of the hand, we want them to pay too much to draw. Very big difference. Always trying to punish/push out draws is very -EV. You need to get payed off with your big hand: picking up the blinds plus a weenie bet on the flop with two top pairs makes my skin crawl. Plus, QJ is a very small part of villains' range (one hand) and we still have for outs to beat it.

Turn is entirely a different matter, especially if the hand becomes vulnerable (small card pairing, four to a flush, straight cards, etc.).