what would you have done in my place

maxitoby

maxitoby

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hello i had recently play a poker hand in 6 max . (Sorry for my english i'm belgian)
My hand is KJ ♡ i had 150 BB
And i am on the SB
I raise 4BB
The BB call
Flop 10♤ J◇ 6♧
I raise the half pot
The BB call
The turn is 8♡
I raise 3/4 pot
The BB Call
The river is 8◇
I over net 2×pot
3bet all in 200BB
i call
The BB had 79 off suit
And win the pot with 7-->J

My question is : what was my fault in this hand
And :what would you have done in my place
Tanks
 
T

tmfnsanders

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preflop seems fine
flop seems fine maybe bet a little more though- board is kinda coordinated but this also leaves drawing hands calling

turn the board starts getting even scarier-Q9 ,JT,J8,68,T8,79 all just got there as well as if he floated flop with 88. I think I go into c/c and pot control mode here.

If he bets the turn c/c barring crazy sizing- if he checks back the turn I throw out a smallish vbet on the river
 
Last edited:
JJP

JJP

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I think everything up to your turn play is fine, a lot of hands turned equity or got there so I would be looking to slow down and get to showdown as cheaply as possible. The river over bet is really bad imo, anything you would beat would never call in this spot ... think about why you are betting !
 
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Cloxy

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I think you overplayed your hand. But I would play the same I think. The right play would be making the bets that size that allows you to fold easier because the board is dangerous. But your play is also appropriate because you made a big pressure and another kind of players would fold on flop.
 
mitroff

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The river can always throw out, except agromaniacs or fishy. On the turn, you can already understand the power of the opponent's hand.
 
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sergiu2222

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You raise or you bet "half pot"?Check - call on turn -> river !
 
Drhat63

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I don't really understand why the over bet on the river? you're only getting raised or called by much better hands, I.e: A8, J8, AJ... I would have definitely gone for value on the river, as you did, but sort of thin value. Then when you get raised, you can pay off the hand, with much less $$$ going in, or decide you are beat, and lose the MIN. He turned the 2nd nut straight, so you were 0% on the turn, and river, these are the spots you will need to navigate better in the future, to be a winning player. thanks for sharing!
 
8bod8

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For me, your flop bet was too small and the river too big (thus being a bluf).
But as BB called your 4BB raise with 97o, I doubt if a larger flop bet would have made any sense, a call preflop would have had the same effect, except that any flop bet you put would have been more difficult to call due to the worsened odds.
 
finaltable1

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hello i had recently play a poker hand in 6 max . (Sorry for my english i'm belgian)
My hand is KJ ♡ i had 150 BB
And i am on the SB
I raise 4BB
The BB call
Flop 10♤ J◇ 6♧
I raise the half pot
The BB call
The turn is 8♡
I raise 3/4 pot
The BB Call
The river is 8◇
I over net 2×pot
3bet all in 200BB
i call
The BB had 79 off suit
And win the pot with 7-->J

My question is : what was my fault in this hand
And :what would you have done in my place
Tanks


1) Community cards are paired and there are lots of possible draws.
2) Your hand is JK, personally with stack over 100bb I limp or fold JK pre-flop. JK is a good hand if you hit the nut straight or flush with it, full house is also good.

Your mistake is that you've paid 150bb having 2 pairs, and one of them was community pair = 88.

Think of the following, like a programmer:

if

pocket cards are JKs vs 79o and community is 10 J 6 8 8

poker hand is 5 cards.

then

lets think of some chart for these cards:
A 8 8 8 8 = quads is the nuts for that board. 100% win
10 10 10 8 8 or J J 888 = full house 90% of the best
66 888 or 666 88 = 85% of the best
8 9 10 J Q or 7 8 9 10 J = 80% = OPPONENTS HAND
5 6 7 8 9 or 6 7 8 9 10 = 75%
A J 888 or 2 J 888 = set(trips) 70%
AA J 88 = top 2 pairs
....
KJJ 88 = mid 2 pairs = YOUR HAND
...
2 3 6 8 10 = worst hand, beats nothing

And make another chart for yourself.
- I will invest 100bb+ with a hand that has 70 or 80 or 90 or 100% chance to win the pot.
- I will invest 10-15bb into flop that has 14 outs for me, let's say flush+straight draw.
- and so on.

If you have a clear vision of how much it costs to pay for each hand then it would be easier for you to play. So far you've paid 150bb with mid 2 pairs, it's terrible decision if you ask me.

You bet 4bb preflop, I would limp or fold to a bet if its tournament, and would think about playing this hand if I have a position at the cash table, would raise 2.5-3bb w it. 150bb is a big stack for the tourney, specially for late stage, with 150bb stack I would recommend to play only QQ+ and play it very aggressively.

But lets get back to your hand.
You bet 4bb preflop, and half of pot to see the turn, i suppose it was 5bb bet, so the pot is 20bb when you're watching the turn card. What makes you think that betting 15bb is good at this point? You're increasing the pot and losing control of it, it will be 50bb pot at the river with 125bb remaining stack and you've got just 1 pair so far. There are possible trips and straights already, plus pocket overpairs like QQ-KK-AA... Check the turn, instead of investing 15bb, check to see what your opponent thinks about it and to control the size of the pot. You want the pot to be big with huge hands, with nuts... but you only have one pair, yes it's top pair, and one of the best kickers, but still, it's just 1 pair. If your opponent hit 2 pairs on turn or a straight - he will show it with a bet, some a=holes are checking their nuts to fool you, to let you do the betting instead of them. Think about it.

With JK, you could place such bet - 3/4 = 15bb on turn with board like 2 - J - 7 - 3 rainbow.

To prevent such mistakes in the future, you have to decide for yourself what are you paying for?
Are you paying for those amazing 2 cards that you've got? it's AK or AQ or KK even, but what if the board is 9 9 10 10, you've got AKs and a flush draw, you keep betting hunting for that flush, but opponent already ahs a full house? Poker hand is 5(five cards) and you have to see the river to understand if you have the nuts or nothing. If you think that you have the nut hand on the flop - then go all-in to defend your hand and make opponent fold his draw, or he will pay and it will be a race with you being a leader. If you think that you have a nut hand just because it's top pair and it's ace or king or whatever... then think again.
 
B

bzvz222

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1) Community cards are paired and there are lots of possible draws.
2) Your hand is JK, personally with stack over 100bb I limp or fold JK pre-flop. JK is a good hand if you hit the nut straight or flush with it, full house is also good.

Your mistake is that you've paid 150bb having 2 pairs, and one of them was community pair = 88.

Think of the following, like a programmer:

if

pocket cards are JKs vs 79o and community is 10 J 6 8 8

poker hand is 5 cards.

then

lets think of some chart for these cards:
A 8 8 8 8 = quads is the nuts for that board. 100% win
10 10 10 8 8 or J J 888 = full house 90% of the best
66 888 or 666 88 = 85% of the best
8 9 10 J Q or 7 8 9 10 J = 80% = OPPONENTS HAND
5 6 7 8 9 or 6 7 8 9 10 = 75%
A J 888 or 2 J 888 = set(trips) 70%
AA J 88 = top 2 pairs
....
KJJ 88 = mid 2 pairs = YOUR HAND
...
2 3 6 8 10 = worst hand, beats nothing

And make another chart for yourself.
- I will invest 100bb+ with a hand that has 70 or 80 or 90 or 100% chance to win the pot.
- I will invest 10-15bb into flop that has 14 outs for me, let's say flush+straight draw.
- and so on.

If you have a clear vision of how much it costs to pay for each hand then it would be easier for you to play. So far you've paid 150bb with mid 2 pairs, it's terrible decision if you ask me.

You bet 4bb preflop, I would limp or fold to a bet if its tournament, and would think about playing this hand if I have a position at the cash table, would raise 2.5-3bb w it. 150bb is a big stack for the tourney, specially for late stage, with 150bb stack I would recommend to play only QQ+ and play it very aggressively.

But lets get back to your hand.
You bet 4bb preflop, and half of pot to see the turn, i suppose it was 5bb bet, so the pot is 20bb when you're watching the turn card. What makes you think that betting 15bb is good at this point? You're increasing the pot and losing control of it, it will be 50bb pot at the river with 125bb remaining stack and you've got just 1 pair so far. There are possible trips and straights already, plus pocket overpairs like QQ-KK-AA... Check the turn, instead of investing 15bb, check to see what your opponent thinks about it and to control the size of the pot. You want the pot to be big with huge hands, with nuts... but you only have one pair, yes it's top pair, and one of the best kickers, but still, it's just 1 pair. If your opponent hit 2 pairs on turn or a straight - he will show it with a bet, some a=holes are checking their nuts to fool you, to let you do the betting instead of them. Think about it.

With JK, you could place such bet - 3/4 = 15bb on turn with board like 2 - J - 7 - 3 rainbow.

To prevent such mistakes in the future, you have to decide for yourself what are you paying for?
Are you paying for those amazing 2 cards that you've got? it's AK or AQ or KK even, but what if the board is 9 9 10 10, you've got AKs and a flush draw, you keep betting hunting for that flush, but opponent already ahs a full house? Poker hand is 5(five cards) and you have to see the river to understand if you have the nuts or nothing. If you think that you have the nut hand on the flop - then go all-in to defend your hand and make opponent fold his draw, or he will pay and it will be a race with you being a leader. If you think that you have a nut hand just because it's top pair and it's ace or king or whatever... then think again.

Nice analysis. I woukd just add two words. Pot control. There really is no need to build huge pots on such boards with that hand.
 
M

mara2259

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I suggest you throw this hand out of my head. Analyzing the game of a person who, with 79, answers 3BB and calls a raise with a leaky straight draw is useless. Raising half sweat is not enough, better 2/3 - 1.2
 
Jacki Burkhart

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it's all fine until the river.

there's almost nothing left he could call 3 bets with that you are still beating. I would check call most rivers. or blocker bet.
 
playinggameswithu

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Why raise with KJs 4x the hands you need get folded out.I just limp with it or attack the blinds which you did OK. The river is total sucide you wayyyyyyyyy over called that deep in an MTT for that many BB you need the nuts or nothing.
 
SuzdalDEcor

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You raise or you bet "half pot"?Check - call on turn -> river !

This is absurd. If you check on the turn, you will give him take the river without pay with his dro 89; QK, K9 etc. And you will miss valuebet from TX, JX
 
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