What would you have done here?

Black_Fox

Black_Fox

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pokerstars Game #10332831103: Tournament #52322221, $20+$2 Hold'em No Limit - Level I (10/20) - 2007/06/08 - 12:35:48 (ET)
Table '52322221 4' 9-max Seat #1 is the button
Seat 1: kingmiz (1500 in chips)
Seat 2: charoki (1500 in chips)
Seat 3: KillerCombo7 (1500 in chips)
Seat 4: finallywon (1500 in chips)
Seat 5: asexpected (1500 in chips)
Seat 6: Percyeus86 (1500 in chips)
Seat 7: Tigre Vic (1500 in chips)
Seat 8: platanitsis (1500 in chips)
Seat 9: emagdnim2985 (1500 in chips)
charoki: posts small blind 10
KillerCombo7: posts big blind 20
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to Percyeus86 [Jd Qd]
finallywon: folds
asexpected: raises 20 to 40
Percyeus86: calls 40
Tigre Vic: raises 220 to 260
platanitsis: folds
emagdnim2985 has timed out
emagdnim2985: folds
emagdnim2985 is sitting out
kingmiz: folds
charoki: folds
KillerCombo7: folds
asexpected: folds
Percyeus86: calls 220
*** FLOP *** [6c 6d Qs]
Percyeus86: checks
Tigre Vic: bets 1240 and is all-in
charoki is sitting out
Percyeus86: folds
Tigre Vic collected 590 from pot
Tigre Vic: doesn't show hand
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 590 | Rake 0
Board [6c 6d Qs]
Seat 1: kingmiz (button) folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 2: charoki (small blind) folded before Flop
Seat 3: KillerCombo7 (big blind) folded before Flop
Seat 4: finallywon folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 5: asexpected folded before Flop
Seat 6: Percyeus86 folded on the Flop
Seat 7: Tigre Vic collected (590)
Seat 8: platanitsis folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 9: emagdnim2985 folded before Flop (didn't bet)

I was close to calling, but something told me i was beat.

BF.
 
pokernut

pokernut

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Personally I'm folding this preflop in middle position. If I do call the minraise then I definately fold to the re-raise. QJ is just such a trouble hand, that it's so hard to know where you stand, especially in the first level with likely no reads on your opponents. A lot of hands beat you in this situation, and a lot of hands have you dominated preflop. I think you're beat here. Folding was the right choice IMO.
 
dj11

dj11

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LP I call with that hand, but MP I'd have folded the first hand of the match.

If you have no history with the villain, the fold was a good one.

There is a large caveat here of course. You might be thinking, and I believe rightfully, that villain is out to be aggressive early on. It is pretty possible you have him beat. But with no reads of any kind, and the first hand of the match, folding is the wiser option. IMO
 
J

joeeagles

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Yeah, I have to agree that I'd fold this PF, sorry BF. But if you're calling and get that flop I think I'd attempt to lead out 1/2 pot which still leaves fold equity.

What was your plan when you checked this flop? Just curious, I'm thinking maybe you were planning a check/raise, which is not a bad move but I think it couldn't be done here because pot size would probably make you committed if you were able to try that with villain making a 1/2 pot bet.

Now, I know that the whole world is going to disagree with me here but as played I think I call this. Villain's huge PF raise and his all-in on the flop doesn't look right to me. This behavior suggests me there is a good chance he has a PP like JJ, TT, 99. That type of hand better explains his PF raise as opposed to AA, KK, or AQ or KQ, which all have you dominated. It fits more the style of those players who are very insecure and panic when the overcard hits. His shove, rather than making me think you're W/B, makes me think you might have been W/A. All this, of course, is plain speculation since its the 1st hand and you don't know this villain, but my point is if you called it PF then you should go all the way on that board. I can't possibly see him raising that much PF with AQ or KQ, and if you have aces or kings you should actually like that paired board and get some value from your hand which a shove likely doesn't give you.

It just doesn't look right, but perhaps its me. I expect to get blasted now for posting this.
 
stormswa

stormswa

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you guys need to tear apart hands better! :D check it in red sir.


PokerStars Game #10332831103: Tournament #52322221, $20+$2 Hold'em No Limit - Level I (10/20) - 2007/06/08 - 12:35:48 (ET)
Table '52322221 4' 9-max Seat #1 is the button
Seat 1: kingmiz (1500 in chips)
Seat 2: charoki (1500 in chips)
Seat 3: KillerCombo7 (1500 in chips)
Seat 4: finallywon (1500 in chips)
Seat 5: asexpected (1500 in chips)
Seat 6: Percyeus86 (1500 in chips)
Seat 7: Tigre Vic (1500 in chips)
Seat 8: platanitsis (1500 in chips)
Seat 9: emagdnim2985 (1500 in chips)
charoki: posts small blind 10
KillerCombo7: posts big blind 20
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to Percyeus86 [Jd Qd]
finallywon: folds
asexpected: raises 20 to 40
Percyeus86: calls 40
you are in level 1 so I dont mind this call, QJ can make alot of big hands and end up busting someone.
Tigre Vic: raises 220 to 260
platanitsis: folds
emagdnim2985 has timed out
emagdnim2985: folds
emagdnim2985 is sitting out
kingmiz: folds
charoki: folds
KillerCombo7: folds
asexpected: folds
Percyeus86: calls 220
this is bad, real bad you are putting like 1/6 of your stack in the middle with a hand that will be dominated most of the time.
*** FLOP *** [6c 6d Qs]
Percyeus86: checks
I would lead here, if you do though you are committed but that is what you get for calling a huge raise preflop.
Tigre Vic: bets 1240 and is all-in
charoki is sitting out
Percyeus86: folds
you hit the ideal flop really but yes of course you have to fold, hell you should of never even been in this situation.
Tigre Vic collected 590 from pot
Tigre Vic: doesn't show hand
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 590 | Rake 0
Board [6c 6d Qs]
Seat 1: kingmiz (button) folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 2: charoki (small blind) folded before Flop
Seat 3: KillerCombo7 (big blind) folded before Flop
Seat 4: finallywon folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 5: asexpected folded before Flop
Seat 6: Percyeus86 folded on the Flop
Seat 7: Tigre Vic collected (590)
Seat 8: platanitsis folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 9: emagdnim2985 folded before Flop (didn't bet)

I was close to calling, but something told me i was beat.

dont understand this comment at all, ok so you call preflop with QJ and the board shows Q high and you think you were beat? so why the hell did you call preflop then? did you think you were beat preflop?
BF.

no offense to you but this hand should of never happened.
 
stormswa

stormswa

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Now, I know that the whole world is going to disagree with me here but as played I think I call this. Villain's huge PF raise and his all-in on the flop doesn't look right to me. This behavior suggests me there is a good chance he has a PP like JJ, TT, 99. That type of hand better explains his PF raise as opposed to AA, KK, or AQ or KQ, which all have you dominated. It fits more the style of those players who are very insecure and panic when the overcard hits. His shove, rather than making me think you're W/B, makes me think you might have been W/A. All this, of course, is plain speculation since its the 1st hand and you don't know this villain, but my point is if you called it PF then you should go all the way on that board. I can't possibly see him raising that much PF with AQ or KQ, and if you have aces or kings you should actually like that paired board and get some value from your hand which a shove likely doesn't give you.

It just doesn't look right, but perhaps its me. I expect to get blasted now for posting this.


i think you lead flop then call because you will be pot committed then. If you are going to check it then fold because at level 1 no point in making these kinda calls. BUT once you lead out you can call because a huge portion of your stack is in the middle. Again this hand should not of happened.
 
J

joeeagles

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Again this hand should not of happened.

I absolutely agree with that, it never should have gotten there.:eek:

The reason I call this is not because of the "well, if I call the reraise and hit the flop then I'm ready to go broke" line of thinking. Its because I really think he's ahead here. Can you see villain raising that much PF with AQ or KQ? Honestly, I can't. KK is the only hand I can think of that you're behind, everything else you're ahead of because AA wouldn't do this. This is a hand like TT way more often than KK. I don't insist because I've never yet called my stack off the first hand of a tourney w/o having the nuts, but I'm really convinced he's ahead here more times than not.

But all this should have never happened, you're right on the number with that statement.

P.S. If he leads for 300 does that make him pot committed? He would have 940 left, can't he still fold to a shove if he wants to? I was thinking he could that's why I said to lead out.
 
stormswa

stormswa

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I absolutely agree with that, it never should have gotten there.:eek:

The reason I call this is not because of the "well, if I call the reraise and hit the flop then I'm ready to go broke" line of thinking. Its because I really think he's ahead here. Can you see villain raising that much PF with AQ or KQ? Honestly, I can't. KK is the only hand I can think of that you're behind, everything else you're ahead of because AA wouldn't do this. This is a hand like TT way more often than KK. I don't insist because I've never yet called my stack off the first hand of a tourney w/o having the nuts, but I'm really convinced he's ahead here more times than not.

But all this should have never happened, you're right on the number with that statement.

P.S. If he leads for 300 does that make him pot committed? He would have 940 left, can't he still fold to a shove if he wants to? I was thinking he could that's why I said to lead out.

I just dont see a point in calling preflop to hit our hand and then folding on the flop. I actually was going to tell him to call but then said Nah, don't know I don't think a call is bad here considering we got ourselves in this mess might as well call.

Nah we are not pot committed for some reason I thought there was more in the pot, didn't realize it was only 400. I would lead this though 90% of the time, you call with QJ and hit your flop you might as well lead when you hit.
 
J

joeeagles

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I would lead this though 90% of the time, you call with QJ and hit your flop you might as well lead when you hit.


Yeah, that's what I think, you have to lead and now, if villain shoves back, I'll fold thinking he does have me beat. If he bluff/shoved, more power to him because at that point I have to give up I just can't call anymore.

Then, its !#$%^&* to myself for getting in that mess to begin with, lol
 
Effexor

Effexor

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I agree %100 with stormswa.

You made 2 mistakes, calling the PF raise, and then not betting out when you hit the flop. After this, folding was the wise choice, although I'd have put him on pocket Jacks or 10's based on the betting pattern. Really looks like he doesn't want you drawing, and based on your check he probably thinks you missed the flop.
 
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