$U$11 NL HE MTT: Should I have played more passively or fate sealed?

kunkgreen

kunkgreen

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MTT
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U$11
Game Options
  1. Bounty
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I won a $2.20 satellite for a seat in an $11.00 MTT Bounty.
My table image might be something close to TAG.
I had this game at first. Little information about the villain!
Apparently aggressive (medium), but also accepts aggression.
Villain's HUD - 26 hands -> VPIP: 23 PFR:15


What could be done differently? Since this would be a Bounty tournament!

pokerstars, $9.80 + $1.20 - Hold'em No Limit - 200/400 (50 ante) - 5 players
Replay this hand on CardsChat

Il Professore.8 (UTG): 11,983 (30 bb)
kunkgreen (CO): 23,343 (58 bb)
EDcallmeVJ (BU): 23,945 (60 bb)
TM2212 (SB): 26,500 (66 bb)
oneshot389 (BB): 39,229 (98 bb)

Pre-Flop: (850) Hero (kunkgreen) is CO with K A
1 fold, kunkgreen (CO) raises to 1,000, EDcallmeVJ (BU) calls 1,000, TM2212 (SB) calls 800, oneshot389 (BB) calls 600

Flop: (4,250) K 8 9 (4 players)
TM2212 (SB) checks, oneshot389 (BB) checks, kunkgreen (CO) bets 3,188, EDcallmeVJ (BU) folds, TM2212 (SB) raises to 6,376, oneshot389 (BB) folds, kunkgreen (CO) raises to 22,293 (all-in), TM2212 (SB) calls 15,917

Turn: (48,836) J (2 players, 1 all-in)

River: (48,836) 3 (2 players, 1 all-in)

Total pot: 48,836






[I would like to learn how to create spoiler button, anyone to help? haha]

Since I couldn't, scroll down!


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Showdown:
kunkgreen (CO) shows K A (a pair of Kings)
(Equity - Pre-Flop: 75%, Flop: 85%, Turn: 7%, River: 0%)

TM2212 (SB) shows K J (two pair, Kings and Jacks)
(Equity - Pre-Flop: 25%, Flop: 15%, Turn: 93%, River: 100%)

TM2212 (SB) wins 48,836
 
Last edited:
makisaa

makisaa

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The surprise was unpleasant, just for one pair, and the AK was exposed in front of a KJ. Yes you could play more passively, because the one pair you had was a weak hand.
 
kunkgreen

kunkgreen

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The surprise was unpleasant, just for one pair, and the AK was exposed in front of a KJ. Yes you could play more passively, because the one pair you had was a weak hand.
What small blind calling range would be winning me postflop?

Looking better after the game, I can feel the flop more connected than I actually thought at the time.
I didn't see the villain with two low pair holding like 89s and nearby or at most K9. Possible K10, Q10, QJ maybe in hearts.
I put this spot on GTOWizard (actually similar action like CO open raise and SB call) and it gave me that I should check 62% of the time.

The check raise there sent me top pair and a lower kicker.
Or a strong draw, but again I had the Ace of hearts, so that was another reason I moved all-in to exercise fold equity.


Any suggestions, I'm listening... 🌿
 
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fundiver199

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Or a strong draw, but again I had the Ace of hearts, so that was another reason I moved all-in to exercise fold equity.
You are not trying to make someone fold a hand better than TPTK. When you 3-bet jam the flop, its a jam for value, meaning you are looking to get called by worse hands like the one, he had. Or by his draws, which you are also ahead off. From a theoretical standpoint, your C-bet is very large in a multiway pot and should likely either be smaller or a check. But at the end of the day you got it in with 80% equity, so the hand is just a bad beat story.
 
Matt_Burns88

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your C-bet is very large in a multiway pot and should likely either be smaller or a check.
This is interesting to me. I would have thought betting big would be the correct play because if you bet small you're giving the draws a good price to call, whereas betting 75% pot means they're not getting the right immediate pot odds. Is this an implied odds situation as we're still 50+bb deep?
 
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fundiver199

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This is interesting to me. I would have thought betting big would be the correct play because if you bet small you're giving the draws a good price to call, whereas betting 75% pot means they're not getting the right immediate pot odds. Is this an implied odds situation as we're still 50+bb deep?
I dont know the exact answer to this, but as I understand it, solvers tend to prefer smaller bets in multiway pots. And I assume, its something about stack protection, when several opponents can have the nuts, and maybe also the fact, that the players next to act have to be very tight. In this situation, if BTN had KJ, he might actually be supposed to fold to such a large C-bet, because he also have to worry about the two guys behind him. And obviously thats not a great outcome, when we are betting for value.

Strong draws are pretty much always getting the right odds to continue on the flop, unless we do something completely unusual like overbet, so its a bit of a misconception to bet large on the flop to "protect against draws". The street, where you can actually do that, is on the turn, when there is only one more card to come. Anyways this is the theory, but if you are playing in a game, where people will massively overvalue their hand, as the guy with KJ did here, then larger sizing can never be that bad. As I said, the hand is basically a bad beat story.
 
Matt_Burns88

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I dont know the exact answer to this, but as I understand it, solvers tend to prefer smaller bets in multiway pots. And I assume, its something about stack protection, when several opponents can have the nuts, and maybe also the fact, that the players next to act have to be very tight. In this situation, if BTN had KJ, he might actually be supposed to fold to such a large C-bet, because he also have to worry about the two guys behind him. And obviously thats not a great outcome, when we are betting for value.

Strong draws are pretty much always getting the right odds to continue on the flop, unless we do something completely unusual like overbet, so its a bit of a misconception to bet large on the flop to "protect against draws". The street, where you can actually do that, is on the turn, when there is only one more card to come. Anyways this is the theory, but if you are playing in a game, where people will massively overvalue their hand, as the guy with KJ did here, then larger sizing can never be that bad. As I said, the hand is basically a bad beat story.
Thank you. I'm definitely going to look into this in some more depth, as it could well be a spot where I am going wrong .
 
eetenor

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I won a $2.20 satellite for a seat in an $11.00 MTT Bounty.
My table image might be something close to TAG.
I had this game at first. Little information about the villain!
Apparently aggressive (medium), but also accepts aggression.
Villain's HUD - 26 hands -> VPIP: 23 PFR:15


What could be done differently? Since this would be a Bounty tournament!

PokerStars, $9.80 + $1.20 - Hold'em No Limit - 200/400 (50 ante) - 5 players
Replay this hand on CardsChat

Il Professore.8 (UTG): 11,983 (30 bb)
kunkgreen (CO): 23,343 (58 bb)
EDcallmeVJ (BU): 23,945 (60 bb)
TM2212 (SB): 26,500 (66 bb)
oneshot389 (BB): 39,229 (98 bb)

Pre-Flop: (850) Hero (kunkgreen) is CO with K A
1 fold, kunkgreen (CO) raises to 1,000, EDcallmeVJ (BU) calls 1,000, TM2212 (SB) calls 800, oneshot389 (BB) calls 600

Flop: (4,250) K 8 9 (4 players)
TM2212 (SB) checks, oneshot389 (BB) checks, kunkgreen (CO) bets 3,188, EDcallmeVJ (BU) folds, TM2212 (SB) raises to 6,376, oneshot389 (BB) folds, kunkgreen (CO) raises to 22,293 (all-in), TM2212 (SB) calls 15,917

Turn: (48,836) J (2 players, 1 all-in)

River: (48,836) 3 (2 players, 1 all-in)

Total pot: 48,836






[I would like to learn how to create spoiler button, anyone to help? haha]

Since I couldn't, scroll down!


.
.
.
.







Showdown:
kunkgreen (CO) shows K A (a pair of Kings)
(Equity - Pre-Flop: 75%, Flop: 85%, Turn: 7%, River: 0%)

TM2212 (SB) shows K J (two pair, Kings and Jacks)
(Equity - Pre-Flop: 25%, Flop: 15%, Turn: 93%, River: 100%)

TM2212 (SB) wins 48,836
It is a bad beat -our study point is vs a min raise that is soo often a very strong hand-that we may be shoving vs a combo draw or set- so we may want to call flop decide turn-
 
kunkgreen

kunkgreen

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@makisaa , @Matt_Burns88 , @eetenor , @fundiver199
I appreciate hearing your opinion!
Thank you very much!

You are not trying to make someone fold a hand better than TPTK. When you 3-bet jam the flop, its a jam for value, meaning you are looking to get called by worse hands like the one, he had. Or by his draws, which you are also ahead off. From a theoretical standpoint, your C-bet is very large in a multiway pot and should likely either be smaller or a check. But at the end of the day you got it in with 80% equity, so the hand is just a bad beat story.
My 3-bet was for value, in which case exercising fold equity would be one of the lines of thinking where he would fold with strong draws as he still had chips to play the game. (I don't know, depending on the MTT I would drop, in the case being bounty maybe not)
Another point I also forgot to mention!
The high bet was deliberate (75%~) and the non-table action went exactly as I predicted! LOL
I imagined a fold from the other two (the two who folded won the tickets with me so they definitely knew I was "giant" in the round), and a call or re-raise from the sb (we had some 'catch' in previous rounds). I should have mentioned this as it changes the dynamic a bit.
But it's the one with +80% equity, we had a little bad luck too! hehe
 
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fundiver199

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My 3-bet was for value, in which case exercising fold equity would be one of the lines of thinking where he would fold with strong draws as he still had chips to play the game.
He is not supposed to fold a strong draw on the flop, when he is getting 2:1. The basic math says, he need 33% equity, and a draw with 8+ outs has more than that with two cards to come. So if he was raising a draw, his plan would be to beat you into the pot, if you jammed on him. Raise-folding a draw with this stack depth would be a very significant mistake by him. If he did not want to stack off on the flop, he should just have called to not reopen the betting for you. I am just saying this, because its important to always be clear about, what we are trying to accomplish, if we bet or raise. And here the answer is getting called by worse including all his draws.
 
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