TT with some odd action; late-ish in $3+R

ChuckTs

ChuckTs

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I've been very tight-aggressive, having not seen a hand better than AQ in the last hour. Villain is something like 30/0/2 over a few dozen hands. Preflop I've put him on JJ and under, and some weak face cards like QK, A9+ etc.

I couldn't raise to isolate PF because of the weird little rule with the small all-in player's stack.

What's villain betting this flop with?

pokerstars GAME #11023807660: TOURNAMENT #55429427, $3.00+$0.30 HOLD'EM NO LIMIT - LEVEL IX (300/600) - 2007/07/19 - 16:32:28 (ET)
Table '55429427 120' 9-max Seat #9 is the button
Seat 1: arepapati (7750 in chips)
Seat 2: karmahx (9445 in chips)
Seat 3: LRP FSU (10245 in chips)
Seat 4: KingPinKilla (8655 in chips)
Seat 5: eej33 (5585 in chips)
Seat 6: windtalon (4410 in chips)
Seat 7: Lefti1964 (21107 in chips)
Seat 8: ChuckTs (21120 in chips)
Seat 9: TEMPLAR P (11510 in chips)
arepapati: posts the ante 50
karmahx: posts the ante 50
LRP FSU: posts the ante 50
KingPinKilla: posts the ante 50
eej33: posts the ante 50
windtalon: posts the ante 50
Lefti1964: posts the ante 50
ChuckTs: posts the ante 50
TEMPLAR P: posts the ante 50
arepapati: posts small blind 300
karmahx: posts big blind 600
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to ChuckTs [Tc Th]
LRP FSU: folds
KingPinKilla: folds
eej33: folds
windtalon: calls 600
Lefti1964: calls 600
ChuckTs: raises 1900 to 2500
TEMPLAR P: folds
arepapati: calls 2200
karmahx: folds
windtalon: raises 1860 to 4360 and is all-in
Lefti1964: calls 3760
ChuckTs: calls 1860
arepapati: calls 1860
*** FLOP *** [7d 8c 6d]
arepapati: checks
Lefti1964: bets 6600
ChuckTs: ...
 
bubbasbestbabe

bubbasbestbabe

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Got to be high PP. Or AKd. Tough choice for you. You have an overpair and a gutshot.

Do you feel lucky punk? Do you?
 
tenbob

tenbob

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Hmmm, nice bet on his part. Its going to showdown, and all you have is a mid overpair.

I perfer folding in this situation, his bet looks like an isolation one, and really to play this hand youd be looking at playing for most if not all you stack.
 
Dorkus Malorkus

Dorkus Malorkus

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Eww, this is a horrible spot.

Considering we have next to no fold equity and are playing for stacks, it's probably a fold, although the dead money sure looks tempting.

It's less likely than usual villain is bluffing considering he knows he's going to have to show his hand down, too.
 
Irexes

Irexes

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orrible as the honourable gentlemen above say.

Unfortunately about all that makes sense is a set (88) or Adxd (which would be sucky play on his part. Saying that 88 would be sucky too preflop.

Some people do make dumb continuation bets with dry side pots but I don't think you can risk it. If you are not folding you pretty much need to push.

For the record I'd fold (then weep when he shows the draw)
 
ChuckTs

ChuckTs

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The more I think about it, the more I think it's a fold. I was definitely tilting some at the moment with what is pretty much an overall ugly week in these goddam rebuys :/

Anyways, I didn't think long enough during the hand, but I really can't see anything but a set, overpair, or some combo draw or draw + overcards.

Results:

POKERSTARS GAME #11023807660: TOURNAMENT #55429427, $3.00+$0.30 HOLD'EM NO LIMIT - LEVEL IX (300/600) - 2007/07/19 - 16:32:28 (ET)
Table '55429427 120' 9-max Seat #9 is the button
Seat 1: arepapati (7750 in chips)
Seat 2: karmahx (9445 in chips)
Seat 3: LRP FSU (10245 in chips)
Seat 4: KingPinKilla (8655 in chips)
Seat 5: eej33 (5585 in chips)
Seat 6: windtalon (4410 in chips)
Seat 7: Lefti1964 (21107 in chips)
Seat 8: ChuckTs (21120 in chips)
Seat 9: TEMPLAR P (11510 in chips)
arepapati: posts the ante 50
karmahx: posts the ante 50
LRP FSU: posts the ante 50
KingPinKilla: posts the ante 50
eej33: posts the ante 50
windtalon: posts the ante 50
Lefti1964: posts the ante 50
ChuckTs: posts the ante 50
TEMPLAR P: posts the ante 50
arepapati: posts small blind 300
karmahx: posts big blind 600
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to ChuckTs [Tc Th]
LRP FSU: folds
KingPinKilla: folds
eej33: folds
windtalon: calls 600
Lefti1964: calls 600
ChuckTs: raises 1900 to 2500
TEMPLAR P: folds
arepapati: calls 2200
karmahx: folds
windtalon: raises 1860 to 4360 and is all-in
Lefti1964: calls 3760
ChuckTs: calls 1860
arepapati: calls 1860
*** FLOP *** [7d 8c 6d]
arepapati: checks
Lefti1964: bets 6600
ChuckTs: raises 10110 to 16710 and is all-in
arepapati: calls 3340 and is all-in
Lefti1964: calls 10097 and is all-in
*** TURN *** [7d 8c 6d] [Qc]
*** RIVER *** [7d 8c 6d Qc] [Jh]
*** SHOW DOWN ***
Lefti1964: shows [Kd Ks] (a pair of Kings)
ChuckTs: shows [Tc Th] (a pair of Tens)
Lefti1964 collected 26714 from side pot-2
arepapati: shows [Ad Qh] (a pair of Queens)
Lefti1964 collected 10020 from side pot-1
windtalon: shows [Ac 6c] (a pair of Sixes)
Lefti1964 collected 18490 from main pot
Alterix is connected
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 55224 Main pot 18490. Side pot-1 10020. Side pot-2 26714. | Rake 0
Board [7d 8c 6d Qc Jh]
Seat 1: arepapati (small blind) showed [Ad Qh] and lost with a pair of Queens
Seat 2: karmahx (big blind) folded before Flop
Seat 3: LRP FSU folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 4: KingPinKilla folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 5: eej33 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 6: windtalon showed [Ac 6c] and lost with a pair of Sixes
Seat 7: Lefti1964 showed [Kd Ks] and won (55224) with a pair of Kings
Seat 8: ChuckTs showed [Tc Th] and lost with a pair of Tens
Seat 9: TEMPLAR P (button) folded before Flop (didn't bet)


:/
 
Irexes

Irexes

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Horrid stuff.

He deserves to get sucked out on for that (I know this cause I do it myself too much with the KK/AA :) )
 
tosborn

tosborn

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Feb 26, 2007
Total posts
579
I would like to see some numbers on the profitability of limping KK/AA from middle position. Not to say that we should slowplay them entirely. But start the aggression on the flop, not before. I mean how many times have we said "Villain 3 bet preflop they're likely holding KK/AA!"

Is there value in allowing three or four villains to see the flop and then pricing out the draws and letting a calling station/fish make a mistake? I don't have the numbers in front of me, but to hit your flush/straight/two pair is pretty rare. Even with four to the flop the chances of someone actually flopping a better hand are not that good. And if the board comes Q95 off suit and villain is holding AQ we are probably going to stack him.

Hmmm........Any thoughts?
 
Dorkus Malorkus

Dorkus Malorkus

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I would like to see some numbers on the profitability of limping KK/AA from middle position. Not to say that we should slowplay them entirely. But start the aggression on the flop, not before. I mean how many times have we said "Villain 3 bet preflop they're likely holding KK/AA!"

As someone recently said here (Bombjack I think?), the more ideal solution to people being easily able to put you on AA/KK when 3-betting is to 3-bet more liberally with some weaker holdings.
 
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