TT in EP vs. minimum reraise: $15 turbo

ChuckTs

ChuckTs

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About two orbits after this hand, I pick up TT here. I've raised PF twice since, and taken down the blinds uncontested.

Villain is fairly TAG (23/16/2.5) and hasn't shown anything down yet.

pokerstars GAME #9746225520: TOURNAMENT #49461418, $15+$1 HOLD'EM NO LIMIT - LEVEL V (75/150) - 2007/05/04 - 14:49:18 (ET)
Table '49461418 1' 9-max Seat #1 is the button
Seat 1: 2fun2win (2325 in chips)
Seat 3: wheelz86 (1350 in chips)
Seat 4: scubajoce (1245 in chips)
Seat 6: ChuckTs (3685 in chips)
Seat 7: Cutofjack (1600 in chips)
Seat 8: spacegravy (1055 in chips)
Seat 9: blackcat318 (2240 in chips)
wheelz86: posts small blind 75
scubajoce: posts big blind 150
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to ChuckTs [Ts Td]
ChuckTs: raises 300 to 450
Cutofjack: raises 300 to 750
spacegravy: folds
blackcat318: folds
2fun2win: folds
wheelz86: folds
scubajoce: folds
ChuckTs: ...

sigh...minraises...

Also, what do you think about my PF play? Maybe just limp?
 
joosebuck

joosebuck

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fold/shove definetly. i lean towards fold, but it's read dependent
 
smells_flushy

smells_flushy

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I'd call. A fold to a min re-raise will definitely have people undermining your preflop raises. shoving would be a big gamble, as the villian can have higher over pairs, and he is minimum re-raising for value.

Although the purpose of the re-raise may be outcast players who have nothing.

In any case, I would call.
 
smells_flushy

smells_flushy

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Hmm, good point. There is justification for both calling and folding, I guess.

Justification for calling is mainly to maintain your table image. You do not want your preflop raises to go undermined in the long run on the table. Cutofjack will undermine more your preflop raises than anyone else since he is to act right after you, and he has had first-hand preflop experience with you.

Folding will save you some chips. He might be re-raising with AK, trying to represent a monster pair, in which case, you have the advantage. It's cheap to call. I'd call.

I'd be happy to see what others in the forum would say.
 
ChuckTs

ChuckTs

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My thoughts:

folding>calling>pushing.

Pushing is only going to get called by a bigger pair, and probably a big ace. So we'll be a 4.5:1 dog most of the time, and a slight leader in a coinflip a small % of the time. Not too favourable.

Calling seemed clearly the worst option to me at first, but I think it has its merits. We can pull a stop n go and possibly push him off an unimproved big ace since we get first shot at the pot. I still don't like the move, though, since his min-reraise pretty much screams QQ+, and although we can probably toss in some medium pairs and big aces into the mix, I don't like our chances.

Folding seems weak, and yes it will take some weight out of our PF raises, but it's the clear action to me. What can we beat? He's not letting go of QQ+ postflop (maybe QQ on a Axx, Kxx or AKx board, but are we really going to play our TT on any of those flops?).

We're getting incredible pot odds, of course, but I like folding at getting out of the soon-to-be sticky situation while we still can.

Results:

POKERSTARS GAME #9746225520: TOURNAMENT #49461418, $15+$1 HOLD'EM NO LIMIT - LEVEL V (75/150) - 2007/05/04 - 14:49:18 (ET)
Table '49461418 1' 9-max Seat #1 is the button
Seat 1: 2fun2win (2325 in chips)
Seat 3: wheelz86 (1350 in chips)
Seat 4: scubajoce (1245 in chips)
Seat 6: ChuckTs (3685 in chips)
Seat 7: Cutofjack (1600 in chips)
Seat 8: spacegravy (1055 in chips)
Seat 9: blackcat318 (2240 in chips)
wheelz86: posts small blind 75
scubajoce: posts big blind 150
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to ChuckTs [Ts Td]
ChuckTs: raises 300 to 450
Cutofjack: raises 300 to 750
spacegravy: folds
blackcat318: folds
2fun2win: folds
wheelz86: folds
scubajoce: folds
ChuckTs: folds
Cutofjack collected 1125 from pot
Cutofjack: doesn't show hand
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 1125 | Rake 0
Seat 1: 2fun2win (button) folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 3: wheelz86 (small blind) folded before Flop
Seat 4: scubajoce (big blind) folded before Flop
Seat 6: ChuckTs folded before Flop
Seat 7: Cutofjack collected (1125)
Seat 8: spacegravy folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 9: blackcat318 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
 
alexanderwoo1

alexanderwoo1

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Yeah I would have folded just like you played it. He could have you dominated easily in this position.
 
D

DukeDrew

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I would have called. You're getting 4:1 odds and are big stack. I'd at least see a flop. Position sucks and with 850 left, he's all-in on the flop, pretty much regardless. Factoring in for the bluff/move (you haven't been called on your pre-flops in two hands) and the AK over, I think it's at least a call. If you shove pre-flop, he's going to call with his 3.5 M no matter what. One red flag I have is why he chose to raise to $750 instead of pushing, which usually means he's praying for a call. *shrug*
 
S

Shandy

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Just wondering Chuck if you would have called if had had pushed, if he had pushed you would have to have added Ak, AQ, 77+, and possibly AJs to his range, which we cannot totally discount for his range with the min-raise, although they are less likely. So adding these hands means you are a coinflip with a couple more, and even well ahead of a couple. See it from his point of view you are the big stack and could be bullying.
So if you would call if he shoved, then i am pretty sure you should be calling 350, to see if you hit your set, as he has basically pot committed himself, but you on the other hand can still easily let go of the hand.
 
ChuckTs

ChuckTs

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Just wondering Chuck if you would have called if had had pushed, if he had pushed you would have to have added Ak, AQ, 77+, and possibly AJs to his range...

pot odds would be ~2:1, and vs this range

equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 49.796% 48.95% 00.85% 62863620 1085461.00 { 77+, AQs+, AQo+ }
Hand 1: 50.204% 49.36% 00.85% 63388258 1085461.00 { ThTs }

we're ahead slightly, so it's an easy call.

Tossing in the AJ, we're even more ahead, so it's also a call.

Even against AK+ QQ+ we should be calling.

So if you would call if he shoved, then i am pretty sure you should be calling 350, to see if you hit your set, as he has basically pot committed himself, but you on the other hand can still easily let go of the hand.

The difference is that his minimum reraise vs a bigger stack who's raised in EP (regardless how loose/tight he is) basically screams big pair. He rarely does this with <JJ or a big ace. With those hands he's generally pushing. So against JJ+, we know we're a 4:1 dog vs that range, and the fact that he's giving us very inviting odds (4.75:1) leads me to believe we're well behind. It's probably a must-call based on pot odds, but I make the lay-down most of the time here. I just don't like calling with an underpair when he's so clearly telegraphed his hand strength.
 
Irexes

Irexes

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I'm late to this one, but I fold here. Preflop reraises are seldom a range you can beat without a really solid read.

As you say if he pushes it becomes much trickier.
 
A

alan1983

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I fold too, and def not call. Hes going allin on flop and if its all rags were probably calling that 2 without having any idea where we stand.
 
skoldpadda

skoldpadda

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I fold. Would this be a good or bad situation for a stop and go?
 
A

alan1983

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dont think stop and go works much when you suspect opponent has big pair.

better when you suspect a steal or unpaired ace
 
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