NineLions
Advanced beginner
Silver Level
I dunno about calling. It's a minraise, but what's your plan for the flop? Lead anything that has less than 2 high cards?
skoldpadda
Caveman Eye Surgeon
Bronze Level
Not raising this flop to define the hands really cost you obviously.
pokerstars Game #12331800400: Tournament #61825979, $3.00+$0.30 Hold'em No Limit - Level XXIV (15000/30000) - 2007/09/29 - 02:23:35 (ET)
Table '61825979 112' 9-max Seat #2 is the button
Seat 1: brasil1606 (132158 in chips)
Seat 2: xabracadabra (725016 in chips)
Seat 4: crazzychet1 (2205799 in chips)
Seat 5: ChuckTs (749126 in chips)
Seat 6: 34 Cat (1381792 in chips)
Seat 7: Bicca (510608 in chips)
Seat 9: uglyjoes (653220 in chips)
brasil1606: posts the ante 3000
xabracadabra: posts the ante 3000
crazzychet1: posts the ante 3000
ChuckTs: posts the ante 3000
34 Cat: posts the ante 3000
Bicca: posts the ante 3000
uglyjoes: posts the ante 3000
crazzychet1: posts small blind 15000
ChuckTs: posts big blind 30000
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to ChuckTs [Qd Ks]
L.Schumner [observer] said, "heh you always have ur girl right?"
34 Cat: folds
Bicca: folds
uglyjoes: folds
brasil1606: folds
xabracadabra: folds
crazzychet1: raises 30000 to 60000
34 Cat said, "who? you mean the wife?"
ChuckTs: calls 30000
*** FLOP *** [3c Qs 6s]
crazzychet1: bets 60000
L.Schumner [observer] said, "well depends on who u r i guess, but ya"
ChuckTs: calls 60000
*** TURN *** [3c Qs 6s] [Ac]
crazzychet1: checks
ChuckTs: checks
*** RIVER *** [3c Qs 6s Ac] [Jh]
crazzychet1: bets 90000
34 Cat said, "hummmm, ..... never thought of that. she don't play poker"
ChuckTs said, "ace?"
ChuckTs: calls 90000
*** SHOW DOWN ***
crazzychet1: shows [6h As] (two pair, Aces and Sixes)
ChuckTs: mucks hand
crazzychet1 collected 441000 from pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 441000 | Rake 0
Board [3c Qs 6s Ac Jh]
Seat 1: brasil1606 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 2: xabracadabra (button) folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 4: crazzychet1 (small blind) showed [6h As] and won (441000) with two pair, Aces and Sixes
Seat 5: ChuckTs (big blind) mucked [Qd Ks]
Seat 6: 34 Cat folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 7: Bicca folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 9: uglyjoes folded before Flop (didn't bet)
pokerstars Game #12331800400: Tournament #61825979, $3.00+$0.30 Hold'em No Limit - Level XXIV (15000/30000) - 2007/09/29 - 02:23:35 (ET)
Table '61825979 112' 9-max Seat #2 is the button
Seat 1: brasil1606 (132158 in chips)
Seat 2: xabracadabra (725016 in chips)
Seat 4: crazzychet1 (2205799 in chips)
Seat 5: ChuckTs (749126 in chips)
Seat 6: 34 Cat (1381792 in chips)
Seat 7: Bicca (510608 in chips)
Seat 9: uglyjoes (653220 in chips)
brasil1606: posts the ante 3000
xabracadabra: posts the ante 3000
crazzychet1: posts the ante 3000
ChuckTs: posts the ante 3000
34 Cat: posts the ante 3000
Bicca: posts the ante 3000
uglyjoes: posts the ante 3000
crazzychet1: posts small blind 15000
ChuckTs: posts big blind 30000
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to ChuckTs [Qd Ks]
L.Schumner [observer] said, "heh you always have ur girl right?"
34 Cat: folds
Bicca: folds
uglyjoes: folds
brasil1606: folds
xabracadabra: folds
crazzychet1: raises 30000 to 60000
34 Cat said, "who? you mean the wife?"
ChuckTs: calls 30000
*** FLOP *** [3c Qs 6s]
crazzychet1: bets 60000
L.Schumner [observer] said, "well depends on who u r i guess, but ya"
ChuckTs: calls 60000
*** TURN *** [3c Qs 6s] [Ac]
crazzychet1: checks
ChuckTs: checks
*** RIVER *** [3c Qs 6s Ac] [Jh]
crazzychet1: bets 90000
34 Cat said, "hummmm, ..... never thought of that. she don't play poker"
ChuckTs said, "ace?"
ChuckTs: calls 90000
*** SHOW DOWN ***
crazzychet1: shows [6h As] (two pair, Aces and Sixes)
ChuckTs: mucks hand
crazzychet1 collected 441000 from pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 441000 | Rake 0
Board [3c Qs 6s Ac Jh]
Seat 1: brasil1606 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 2: xabracadabra (button) folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 4: crazzychet1 (small blind) showed [6h As] and won (441000) with two pair, Aces and Sixes
Seat 5: ChuckTs (big blind) mucked [Qd Ks]
Seat 6: 34 Cat folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 7: Bicca folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 9: uglyjoes folded before Flop (didn't bet)
skoldpadda
Caveman Eye Surgeon
Bronze Level
Maybe you can fold after the flop min-raise. Tough one for BVB.
PokerStars Game #12332077627: Tournament #61825979, $3.00+$0.30 Hold'em No Limit - Level XXVI (25000/50000) - 2007/09/29 - 02:54:03 (ET)
Table '61825979 112' 9-max Seat #4 is the button
Seat 2: xabracadabra (932272 in chips)
Seat 3: smokingu2 (1148042 in chips)
Seat 4: crazzychet1 (2476799 in chips)
Seat 5: ChuckTs (837442 in chips)
Seat 6: 34 Cat (2660462 in chips)
Seat 7: Chgo Twn (367502 in chips)
Seat 8: dkeeton (1190802 in chips)
xabracadabra: posts the ante 5000
smokingu2: posts the ante 5000
crazzychet1: posts the ante 5000
ChuckTs: posts the ante 5000
34 Cat: posts the ante 5000
Chgo Twn: posts the ante 5000
dkeeton: posts the ante 5000
ChuckTs: posts small blind 25000
34 Cat: posts big blind 50000
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to ChuckTs [8d Ac]
Chgo Twn: folds
dkeeton: folds
xabracadabra: folds
smokingu2: folds
crazzychet1: folds
ChuckTs: raises 105551 to 155551
34 Cat: calls 105551
*** FLOP *** [As 5s 7c]
ChuckTs: bets 222222
34 Cat: raises 222222 to 444444
ChuckTs: raises 232447 to 676891 and is all-in
34 Cat: calls 232447
*** TURN *** [As 5s 7c] [6s]
L.Schumner [observer] said, "chop"
*** RIVER *** [As 5s 7c 6s] [3s]
*** SHOW DOWN ***
ChuckTs: shows [8d Ac] (a pair of Aces)
34 Cat: shows [9h Ad] (a pair of Aces - Nine kicker)
34 Cat collected 1699884 from pot
KMC1828 [observer] said, "gg chuck =/"
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 1699884 | Rake 0
Board [As 5s 7c 6s 3s]
Seat 2: xabracadabra folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 3: smokingu2 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 4: crazzychet1 (button) folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 5: ChuckTs (small blind) showed [8d Ac] and lost with a pair of Aces
Seat 6: 34 Cat (big blind) showed [9h Ad] and won (1699884) with a pair of Aces
Seat 7: Chgo Twn folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 8: dkeeton folded before Flop (didn't bet)
PokerStars Game #12332077627: Tournament #61825979, $3.00+$0.30 Hold'em No Limit - Level XXVI (25000/50000) - 2007/09/29 - 02:54:03 (ET)
Table '61825979 112' 9-max Seat #4 is the button
Seat 2: xabracadabra (932272 in chips)
Seat 3: smokingu2 (1148042 in chips)
Seat 4: crazzychet1 (2476799 in chips)
Seat 5: ChuckTs (837442 in chips)
Seat 6: 34 Cat (2660462 in chips)
Seat 7: Chgo Twn (367502 in chips)
Seat 8: dkeeton (1190802 in chips)
xabracadabra: posts the ante 5000
smokingu2: posts the ante 5000
crazzychet1: posts the ante 5000
ChuckTs: posts the ante 5000
34 Cat: posts the ante 5000
Chgo Twn: posts the ante 5000
dkeeton: posts the ante 5000
ChuckTs: posts small blind 25000
34 Cat: posts big blind 50000
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to ChuckTs [8d Ac]
Chgo Twn: folds
dkeeton: folds
xabracadabra: folds
smokingu2: folds
crazzychet1: folds
ChuckTs: raises 105551 to 155551
34 Cat: calls 105551
*** FLOP *** [As 5s 7c]
ChuckTs: bets 222222
34 Cat: raises 222222 to 444444
ChuckTs: raises 232447 to 676891 and is all-in
34 Cat: calls 232447
*** TURN *** [As 5s 7c] [6s]
L.Schumner [observer] said, "chop"
*** RIVER *** [As 5s 7c 6s] [3s]
*** SHOW DOWN ***
ChuckTs: shows [8d Ac] (a pair of Aces)
34 Cat: shows [9h Ad] (a pair of Aces - Nine kicker)
34 Cat collected 1699884 from pot
KMC1828 [observer] said, "gg chuck =/"
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 1699884 | Rake 0
Board [As 5s 7c 6s 3s]
Seat 2: xabracadabra folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 3: smokingu2 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 4: crazzychet1 (button) folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 5: ChuckTs (small blind) showed [8d Ac] and lost with a pair of Aces
Seat 6: 34 Cat (big blind) showed [9h Ad] and won (1699884) with a pair of Aces
Seat 7: Chgo Twn folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 8: dkeeton folded before Flop (didn't bet)
NineLions
Advanced beginner
Silver Level
Chuck's only got ~14BBs, M of 5 or 6 at this point. Calling a min raise for set mining is too expensive for my taste.
NineLions
Advanced beginner
Silver Level
Meeself, I'd fold this one preflop.
He's made an early position raise, although he's a big stack so maybe he's just after blinds. But because you're both big stacks I would rather not get involved with him, especially when he's signaled strength and has position.
POKERSTARS GAME #12331169547: TOURNAMENT #61825979, $3.00+$0.30 HOLD'EM NO LIMIT - LEVEL XX (5000/10000) - 2007/09/29 - 01:25:37 (ET)
Table '61825979 112' 9-max Seat #3 is the button
Seat 1: JaxVT (291816 in chips)
Seat 3: Moneyclip1 (124378 in chips)
Seat 4: Janni12 (244040 in chips)
Seat 5: ChuckTs (826421 in chips)
Seat 6: pitbulz (77773 in chips)
Seat 7: Bicca (620297 in chips)
Seat 9: Kaylis420 (132887 in chips)
JaxVT: posts the ante 1000
Moneyclip1: posts the ante 1000
Janni12: posts the ante 1000
ChuckTs: posts the ante 1000
pitbulz: posts the ante 1000
Bicca: posts the ante 1000
Kaylis420: posts the ante 1000
Janni12: posts small blind 5000
ChuckTs: posts big blind 10000
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to ChuckTs [8d Ah]
krownroyal26 is connected
pitbulz: folds
Bicca: raises 18500 to 28500
Kaylis420: folds
JaxVT: folds
Moneyclip1: folds
Janni12: folds
ChuckTs: calls 18500
He's made an early position raise, although he's a big stack so maybe he's just after blinds. But because you're both big stacks I would rather not get involved with him, especially when he's signaled strength and has position.
POKERSTARS GAME #12331169547: TOURNAMENT #61825979, $3.00+$0.30 HOLD'EM NO LIMIT - LEVEL XX (5000/10000) - 2007/09/29 - 01:25:37 (ET)
Table '61825979 112' 9-max Seat #3 is the button
Seat 1: JaxVT (291816 in chips)
Seat 3: Moneyclip1 (124378 in chips)
Seat 4: Janni12 (244040 in chips)
Seat 5: ChuckTs (826421 in chips)
Seat 6: pitbulz (77773 in chips)
Seat 7: Bicca (620297 in chips)
Seat 9: Kaylis420 (132887 in chips)
JaxVT: posts the ante 1000
Moneyclip1: posts the ante 1000
Janni12: posts the ante 1000
ChuckTs: posts the ante 1000
pitbulz: posts the ante 1000
Bicca: posts the ante 1000
Kaylis420: posts the ante 1000
Janni12: posts small blind 5000
ChuckTs: posts big blind 10000
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to ChuckTs [8d Ah]
krownroyal26 is connected
pitbulz: folds
Bicca: raises 18500 to 28500
Kaylis420: folds
JaxVT: folds
Moneyclip1: folds
Janni12: folds
ChuckTs: calls 18500
ChuckTs
Legend
Silver Level
It definitely cost me this time, but IMO in the long-term it's a much better play than raising. We're either up against a hand that crushes us (AA/KK/AQ/set), or a hand that we have dominated (smaller PP, Qx, AK etc). Against A6 for example, they've only got 5 outs to beat me. Not knowing his holding, the only real scare card is an ace on the turn - I'm definitely willing to take those chances to try and induce another bet from JJ/TT/other pair or A6/A3.
I think this one needs PT stats to be analyzed fully. I'm still completely lost as to whether I should have folded or pushed there. I agree with you though; it's more towards the folding direction though.
Thanks again guys, muchos appreciated.
I'll give better responses when I sober up tomorrow and actually have half a brain to work with.
Four Dogs
Legend
Silver Level
I know you said to disregard the early stages of the tournament, but this hand warrents comment even in that light.
poker stars, $3 + $0.30 NL Hold'em Tournament, 10/20 Blinds, 7 Players
LegoPoker Hand History Converter
UTG+1: 4,800
MP: 1,470
CO: 1,450
BTN: 2,970
Hero (SB): 2,990
BB: 2,840
UTG: 1,500
Pre-Flop: (30) 3
A
dealt to Hero (SB)
BB calls 20, 2 folds, MP calls 20, CO calls 20, BTN calls 20, Observer folds, Hero raises to 2,990 and is All-In, 2 folds, CO calls 1,430 and is All-In, BTN folds
Flop: (2,970) A
Q
K
(2 Players - 2 are All-In)
Turn: (2,970) 9
(2 Players - 2 are All-In)
River: (2,970) J
(2 Players - 2 are All-In)
Results: 2,970 Pot
CO showed K
Q
(two pair, Kings and Queens) and WON 2,970 (+1,520 NET)
Hero showed 3
A
(a pair of Aces) and LOST (-1,450 NET)
I understand this is a $3 re-buy and you're looking for a quick double-up, but do really think this was the right spot concidering that any limped pocket pair might be thinking the same way? Out OP vs. 3 limpers with a hand that will in all likelyhood be a big underdog to any caller, this doesn't even make sense as a steal. In the best case you're risking 3000tc to win 30. IMO this goes beyond any understandable aggressive re-buy strategy. Even at $3, this is just throwing your money away.
Edit: I see you did this again a few hands later with K9s.
Poker Stars, $3 + $0.30 NL Hold'em Tournament, 10/20 Blinds, 8 Players
LegoPoker Hand History Converter
CO: 4,490
BTN: 1,950
SB: 1,520
BB: 2,880
UTG: 1,430
Hero (UTG+1): 3,190
MP1: 2,660
MP2: 1,500
Pre-Flop: (30) T
K
dealt to Hero (UTG+1)
UTG calls 20, Hero raises to 3,190 and is All-In, 5 folds, SB calls 1,510 and is All-In, 2 folds
Flop: (3,080) 6
5
Q
(2 Players - 1 is All-In)
Turn: (3,080) Q
(2 Players - 1 is All-In)
River: (3,080) 3
(2 Players - 1 is All-In)
Results: 3,080 Pot
SB showed 8
9
(a pair of Queens) and LOST (-1,520 NET)
Hero showed T
K
(a pair of Queens) and WON 3,080 (+1,560 NET)
While K9s stands a better chance of holding up vs any potential callers, I still don't like the strategy. At this point, there's 30 in the pot and nobody has folded. In essence, what your doing is turning control of the table over to any of the 8 other players. They now have the option of cherry picking there opportunituies to double up. Since your not exactly playing monsters, in most cases you will be the dog.
You're one of the most knowledgable posters on this forum. Certainly better than me. I'd really be interested in reading your reasoning for this strategy.
-Roy
poker stars, $3 + $0.30 NL Hold'em Tournament, 10/20 Blinds, 7 Players
LegoPoker Hand History Converter
UTG+1: 4,800
MP: 1,470
CO: 1,450
BTN: 2,970
Hero (SB): 2,990
BB: 2,840
UTG: 1,500
Pre-Flop: (30) 3
BB calls 20, 2 folds, MP calls 20, CO calls 20, BTN calls 20, Observer folds, Hero raises to 2,990 and is All-In, 2 folds, CO calls 1,430 and is All-In, BTN folds
Flop: (2,970) A
Turn: (2,970) 9
River: (2,970) J
Results: 2,970 Pot
CO showed K
Hero showed 3
I understand this is a $3 re-buy and you're looking for a quick double-up, but do really think this was the right spot concidering that any limped pocket pair might be thinking the same way? Out OP vs. 3 limpers with a hand that will in all likelyhood be a big underdog to any caller, this doesn't even make sense as a steal. In the best case you're risking 3000tc to win 30. IMO this goes beyond any understandable aggressive re-buy strategy. Even at $3, this is just throwing your money away.
Edit: I see you did this again a few hands later with K9s.
Poker Stars, $3 + $0.30 NL Hold'em Tournament, 10/20 Blinds, 8 Players
LegoPoker Hand History Converter
CO: 4,490
BTN: 1,950
SB: 1,520
BB: 2,880
UTG: 1,430
Hero (UTG+1): 3,190
MP1: 2,660
MP2: 1,500
Pre-Flop: (30) T
UTG calls 20, Hero raises to 3,190 and is All-In, 5 folds, SB calls 1,510 and is All-In, 2 folds
Flop: (3,080) 6
Turn: (3,080) Q
River: (3,080) 3
Results: 3,080 Pot
SB showed 8
Hero showed T
While K9s stands a better chance of holding up vs any potential callers, I still don't like the strategy. At this point, there's 30 in the pot and nobody has folded. In essence, what your doing is turning control of the table over to any of the 8 other players. They now have the option of cherry picking there opportunituies to double up. Since your not exactly playing monsters, in most cases you will be the dog.
You're one of the most knowledgable posters on this forum. Certainly better than me. I'd really be interested in reading your reasoning for this strategy.
-Roy
Last edited:
ChuckTs
Legend
Silver Level
@FD:
obviously shoving A3o or K9 is terrible normally, ie we're only getting called by hands we are dominated by. The thing is that in the first hour, people are willing to call with nearly anything. Suited connectors, ace rag, any pair, etc etc etc.
I definitely won't disagree though - it's a very wild and insane style I play in the first hour, and I was especially nuts in this tourney for whatever reason. The thing is that I'm so overrolled for this tourney that I can take those crazy gambles early on to try and build a top %5 stack and use that to my advantage to try and get a final table.
Another thing is that I get this insane image, and by the time the first hour's up, I have cranked right down and start playing a standard TAG style, and get paid off for almost every big hand I get.
Again, I definitely won't argue that most or all of my pushes were -EV, but there's some method to the madness.
Thanks again for the input FD, skold and lions.
obviously shoving A3o or K9 is terrible normally, ie we're only getting called by hands we are dominated by. The thing is that in the first hour, people are willing to call with nearly anything. Suited connectors, ace rag, any pair, etc etc etc.
I definitely won't disagree though - it's a very wild and insane style I play in the first hour, and I was especially nuts in this tourney for whatever reason. The thing is that I'm so overrolled for this tourney that I can take those crazy gambles early on to try and build a top %5 stack and use that to my advantage to try and get a final table.
Another thing is that I get this insane image, and by the time the first hour's up, I have cranked right down and start playing a standard TAG style, and get paid off for almost every big hand I get.
Again, I definitely won't argue that most or all of my pushes were -EV, but there's some method to the madness.
Thanks again for the input FD, skold and lions.
NineLions
Advanced beginner
Silver Level
I watched an instructional vid of someone playing a $10 rebuy and he did pretty much the same during the rebuy period, paying to establish a loose image as much as trying to build a starting stack. Then he tightened up when the rebuy period ended.
I didn't really look at those hands much.
I also realized later that some of my comments about the blinds didn't take into consideration the flow of the game; who is a blind stealer and when to take a stand, so some of the comments about hands in the blinds may not be in context.
I didn't really look at those hands much.
I also realized later that some of my comments about the blinds didn't take into consideration the flow of the game; who is a blind stealer and when to take a stand, so some of the comments about hands in the blinds may not be in context.