Top Pair/Kicker Vs Aggressive player Bad Call?

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brianyahrly

Guest
Joined
Feb 29, 2008
Total posts
17
The villain has been playing general LAG so far. It is very early in the tourny. Do you think this is a bad call on my part? Hindsight being 20/20 especially since i know what happens I should have raised more on the flop =\.

pokerstars Game #15989625383: Tournament #80952289, $4.00+$0.40 Hold'em No Limit - Level I (10/20) - 2008/03/15 - 04:37:30 (ET)
Table '80952289 9' 9-max Seat #4 is the button
Seat 1: DeeezCarrrds (1600 in chips)
Seat 3: flynny18 (1860 in chips)
Seat 4: AEG10 (4670 in chips)
Seat 5: brianyahrly (4505 in chips)
Seat 6: Keefer8 (1480 in chips)
Seat 7: moeprobert (1480 in chips) is sitting out
Seat 8: spindrifter (1480 in chips)
Seat 9: t-rav4011 (1450 in chips)
brianyahrly: posts small blind 10
Keefer8: posts big blind 20
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to brianyahrly [Ad Ks]
moeprobert: folds
spindrifter: folds
t-rav4011: folds
DeeezCarrrds: folds
flynny18: folds
AEG10: calls 20
brianyahrly: raises 60 to 80
III-ERS-III is connected
Keefer8: calls 60
AEG10: calls 60
*** FLOP *** [Ts 2c Kd]
brianyahrly: bets 60
Keefer8: calls 60
AEG10: calls 60
*** TURN *** [Ts 2c Kd] [4c]
brianyahrly: checks
Keefer8: bets 180
AEG10: calls 180
brianyahrly: calls 180
*** RIVER *** [Ts 2c Kd 4c] [5d]
brianyahrly: checks
Keefer8: checks
AEG10: bets 260
brianyahrly: raises 840 to 1100
Keefer8: folds
AEG10: raises 3250 to 4350 and is all-in
brianyahrly: calls 3085 and is all-in
*** SHOW DOWN ***
AEG10: shows [4d 4s] (three of a kind, Fours)
brianyahrly: shows [Ad Ks] (a pair of Kings)
AEG10 collected 9330 from pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 9330 | Rake 0
Board [Ts 2c Kd 4c 5d]
Seat 1: DeeezCarrrds folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 3: flynny18 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 4: AEG10 (button) showed [4d 4s] and won (9330) with three of a kind, Fours
Seat 5: brianyahrly (small blind) showed [Ad Ks] and lost with a pair of Kings
Seat 6: Keefer8 (big blind) folded on the River
Seat 7: moeprobert folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 8: spindrifter folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 9: t-rav4011 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
 
C

CfPoker

Rock Star
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Jan 21, 2008
Total posts
332
Yes, a bigger flop bet would of probably got rid of him. The flop bet was so small that they're calling with a lot of holdings hoping to hit something on the turn.

On the river I think i'd have just called, you're only holding TPTK with 3 players to the river... keep the pot small here I think.
 
F

Flappyf1sh

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Mar 14, 2008
Total posts
12
I agree a bigger bet on the flop is a must a pot sized bet shoud define your hand. AWG has big odds for his small pair it was an easy call for him. I would of called too on the river TPTK busts out alot of players the flop bet was the key in this hand.
 
MrDaMan

MrDaMan

Visionary
Joined
Feb 18, 2007
Total posts
529
Still early in the tournament, a 3x or 4x blind raise pre-flop with A/K is fine. Big Slick is a good tournament hand but why risk chips if you don't need too.

The flop bet is weak, hindsight being 20/20 you're right about that. Remember anytime you've raised pre-flop any callers will have probably premium hands or any range of pairs looking to hit a set. Hitting TPTK on the flop is good but not great you need to use your chips to gleen more information.

A 3x blind bet on the flop allows too wide a range of hands to try and draw out on you. A/K with that flop is just one pair, don't slowplay one pair. Bet 1/2 or full pot sized bet, a call then denotes possible trouble, like a set slowplaying you.

A check on the turn? Why? You're asking to get beat giving away draw cards. If you got called with a substantial raise on the flop, then you might check this hand, if you're first to act with TPTK you need again to gleen information from your opponents. Bet a minimum of 1/3 of the pot any call should set off warning bells. Here you've just called, instead of re-raising. A check raise here will make your opponent wonder if he's got an underset, if he calls, more warning bells should be going off. If he re-raises your re-raise get out, fold you only have top pair, your opponent has hit a set. That's how you find out, that's how you know. Never slowplay one pair.

You checked the river and your opponent bets, you've played the hand weakly all the way through, you better have K/K in the hole cause you've set him up perfectly for slowplayed cowboys. You've played this in a way that is weak enough that if he's got an underset to your three kings he's going to pay you off. Problem is you don't have the K/K you only have A/K, going over the top begs him, encourages him to call.

If you don't trust him only call TPTK on the river, the whole hand is out of whack from the flop to the end. A strong bet on the flop if he calls and catch's a set on the turn, he will probably slowplay and value bet the river.

You might have won this of the flop with the right bet then maybe it would have ended the same way. If he's LAG and called, he would possibly come out shooting on the turn, but then the big bet on the flop which he called and him betting into you cries out SET!

I've gone down many times with A/K in similar situations and will probably do so again. This post isn't critical of YOU, It's just my thinking process's evaluating this hand and how it was played. In that thinking and writing it down I hope anyone can learn something about the way poker is played.

Opponents catching a set. How do you know when they do? One way is to use your chips as tools to gleen information, if your betting and they're not folding, especially big bets you're in trouble. If you're passive and just calling you're in trouble. Make that bet, make it big enough so that if you get a call you can check and fold if you think you're beat.

Making that bet, forcing your opponent to expose his strength will SAVE you chips and develop your ability to read your opponents better giving you more confidence and the discipline to lay down the big hand that's a loser when they happen.

Good Luck :D
 
dj11

dj11

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Your premise is correct, 1/2 pot raise on the flop would have been more correct, but against a LAG, it becomes really hard to predict just what will happen.

I doubt you put villain on a PP. Few of us would. But even against a LAG you have to take into account that on occasion they actually do have cards. There was also the possibility of villain playing A3, possibly suited. Seems to be a hand LAGS have no problem with.

So once you hit such serious resistance you have to add one more element to your thinking. Tourney survival. Your river raise was your undoing. A call at that point would have been fine.

Greed Kills!
 
1

1122phoenix

Rock Star
Joined
Mar 7, 2008
Total posts
103
Hi, judging by the blind level I and the triple up of chips both you and the villian have I would guess that you both won one or more all ins early by betting or calling an all in. An indicator of very aggressive styles. I doubt that betting more on the flop would have gotten rid of the villian, unless it was an amount way out of wack with a drawing hand. Pre-flop the villian figures for the price of one bet he gets 3 chances of hitting a set or better. The place to get rid of him is after the flop when you hit top pr top kicker. With that many overs to his 4s and you betting preflop he is history, bet the pot and he is history, But do you really want to choke off any more value betting when this only happens about 7% of the time with the turn and the river to come.
 
t1riel

t1riel

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See Bold.

The villain has been playing general LAG so far. It is very early in the tourny. Do you think this is a bad call on my part? Hindsight being 20/20 especially since i know what happens I should have raised more on the flop =\.

PokerStars Game #15989625383: Tournament #80952289, $4.00+$0.40 Hold'em No Limit - Level I (10/20) - 2008/03/15 - 04:37:30 (ET)
Table '80952289 9' 9-max Seat #4 is the button
Seat 1: DeeezCarrrds (1600 in chips)
Seat 3: flynny18 (1860 in chips)
Seat 4: AEG10 (4670 in chips)
Seat 5: brianyahrly (4505 in chips)
Seat 6: Keefer8 (1480 in chips)
Seat 7: moeprobert (1480 in chips) is sitting out
Seat 8: spindrifter (1480 in chips)
Seat 9: t-rav4011 (1450 in chips)
brianyahrly: posts small blind 10
Keefer8: posts big blind 20
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to brianyahrly [Ad Ks]
moeprobert: folds
spindrifter: folds
t-rav4011: folds
DeeezCarrrds: folds
flynny18: folds
AEG10: calls 20
brianyahrly: raises 60 to 80
III-ERS-III is connected
Keefer8: calls 60
AEG10: calls 60
*** FLOP *** [Ts 2c Kd]
brianyahrly: bets 60 Weak bet. You would bet at least 100 since you raised to 80 preflop.
Keefer8: calls 60
AEG10: calls 60
*** TURN *** [Ts 2c Kd] 4♣
brianyahrly: checks Why? What hand are you afraid of. Bet at leat 150 or more here.
Keefer8: bets 180
AEG10: calls 180
brianyahrly: calls 180
*** RIVER *** [Ts 2c Kd 4c] 5♦
brianyahrly: checks
Keefer8: checks
AEG10: bets 260
brianyahrly: raises 840 to 1100
Keefer8: folds
AEG10: raises 3250 to 4350 and is all-in
brianyahrly: calls 3085 and is all-in
*** SHOW DOWN ***
AEG10: shows [4d 4s] (three of a kind, Fours)
brianyahrly: shows [Ad Ks] (a pair of Kings)
AEG10 collected 9330 from pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 9330 | Rake 0
Board [Ts 2c Kd 4c 5d]
Seat 1: DeeezCarrrds folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 3: flynny18 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 4: AEG10 (button) showed [4d 4s] and won (9330) with three of a kind, Fours
Seat 5: brianyahrly (small blind) showed [Ad Ks] and lost with a pair of Kings
Seat 6: Keefer8 (big blind) folded on the River
Seat 7: moeprobert folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 8: spindrifter folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 9: t-rav4011 folded before Flop (didn't bet)

Sets happen. A bigger bet on the flop probably would have gotten him to fold. Don't post results next time.
 
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