Too aggressive with this shove?

[tgun]

Hi guys, this is my first post besides on the intro thread. I'm wondering whether or not I got to aggressive with this push or not. I'll give you the scenario up until the flop. Then the result after some input, as I think it's obvious as to what I should have done (then again, if it's obvious, why am I asking for input, right? haha). Thanks in advance.

pokerstars No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t1200 (9 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver Cards)
UTG+1 =#A500AF(UTG+1)/ (t8628)
MP1 =#A500AF(MP1)/ (t22630)
MP2 (t23084)
MP3 =#A500AF(MP2)/ (t25200)
CO =#A500AF(MP3)/ (t17900)
Button =#A500AF(Dealer)/ (t25162)
SB =#A500AF(SB)/ (t27901)
Hero (t38160)
UTG =#A500AF(UTG)/ (t13198)
Preflop: Hero is BB with

,

.
3 folds, MP2 calls t1200, 4 folds, Hero raises to t6000, MP2 calls t4800.
Flop: (t12875)

,

,

(2 players)
Hero bets t32035 (All-In), MP2 calls t16959 (All-In).

 

[tgun]

By the way, I read the thread titles thread after making this, so bear with me haha.

 

[SeanyJ]

Why would you risk all of your chips here for a bluff? I'm sure a pot sized bet would do you just as well, if he moves all in after that bet you know you're beat and you can fold.

 

[tgun]

My read had put him on KQ. I've been playing with him for a while now, and noticed he's been limping with low pairs, calling moderate PF raises with marginal hands such as KJo/QJo and suited connectors, but would come over the top with AK or high pair. I was trying to push him off of a potential flush draw, but as you'll see here...didn't work. His call drove me mad.

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t1200 (9 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver Cards)
UTG+1 (t8628)
MP1 (t22630)
MP2 (t23084)
MP3 (t25200)
CO (t17900)
Button (t25162)
SB (t27901)
Hero (t38160)
UTG (t13198)
Preflop: Hero is BB with

,

.
3 folds, MP2 calls t1200, 4 folds, Hero raises to t6000, MP2 calls t4800.
Flop: (t13000)

,

,

(2 players)
Hero bets t32035 (All-In), MP2 calls t16959 (All-In).
Turn: (t61994)

(2 players, 2 all-in)
River: (t61994)

(2 players, 2 all-in)
Final Pot: t46918
Results in white below:
Hero has Jh As (one pair, jacks).
MP2 has Js 9s (flush, jack high).
Outcome: MP2 wins t46918. Hero wins t15076.

 

[zachvac]

Obviously if you knew what he had and knew he'd call you, that's the right play. Realistically I think you played it WAY too aggressive. You talk about your read on him, maybe he had a read on you that whenever you shove you have nothing. If you're playing a computer you can say something like that, but you cannot say you put someone on KQ or KJ like this because you know for a fact he would have come over the top with high pocket or AK or AQ. At that point I say you bet, if he comes over the top you fold, otherwise you have a tougher decision to make.

 

[Hektor001]

at high stakes in a tourney a extremely high raise with that flop and two players left often represents weakness.
The player who raised before has no hit and wants to scare off the opponent with the all-in.
Good players can read that and cash in with a marginal better hand.

 

[tgun]

Thanks guys. I've been dissecting my play in this tourney, and this hand was definitely my breaking point. I realize now I definitely way too aggressive in my play, but happy with my preflop read. So I can take something out of it. I guess I need to read up on betting and when to shove, instead of going balls to the wall. I think part of it was, I wanted him to call, hoping he had Kx, because if so it would've put at 60k (aka i was greedy haha) with a good shot of final tabling the tourney, as the chip leader at that point was 100k. Thanks for your input everyone.

 

[xerx]

Your stile with this hand looks like a "bingo" and you take too high risk. Normally I don't like play this type hand, because chance make a really bad beat is too high.

But if you still want play with this pair, is right strategy semiagressive: Raise in preflop, checkraise in flop, if someone reraises you just fold. Other way in turn just call 1,5 BB and in river make small bet if you dont hit needed high card, but dont dry push your oponent out, because is possible that your opponent will call and beat you just with a lower pair and you'r game ends here.

 

[OzExorcist]

I think a few other people have said it, but shoving that flop to me screams "I don't have a hand, please don't call me"

Sometimes it will work because your opponent also won't have a hand, and even though they know what you're doing they won't feel like gambling for all their money.

A much smaller bet would probably have accomplished much the same thing - if the villain doesn't have a hand, they still might go away. If they come back over the top, we can fold having lost much less. It also has the added bonus of looking like we actually have a hand, or something worth betting.