Is this too Aggressive?

newfyninja

newfyninja

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This was my final hand in a $3.30 buy-in on Poker Royale. I'm playing here as Rangersfan.

*** Handhistory for game 41839324 ***
Blinds 5000/10000 NL Hold'em - 05.04.2008 - 22:07
1
Seat 8 is the button
Total number of players: 6
Seat 1: si1111 ( 84850 ) - in game
Seat 2: cat_woman ( 31978 ) - in game
Seat 4: nicopm_27 ( 46885 ) - in game
Seat 6: MoffaJinko ( 43010 ) - in game
Seat 8: erik1978 ( 52680 ) - in game
Seat 10: Rangersfan ( 45097 ) - in game
Rangersfan posts SB $5000.
si1111 posts BB $10000.
**** dealing down cards ****
Dealt to Rangersfan [ ts, qh ]
cat_woman folds.
nicopm_27 folds.
MoffaJinko folds.
erik1978 folds.
Rangersfan raises $40097.
si1111 calls $35097.

I won't post what si1111 had, I'll let you know if you want, but as it turned out this was my last hand. I just had my BB poached the hand before from an all-in by the SB so I may have been a little pissed and over played the Q10. The table had been pretty tight seeing how most of the stacks were roughly equal.
 
newfyninja

newfyninja

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Side Note

I should have mentioned, this was the final table as well.
 
Jillychemung

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If you have payout schedule that would help.
 
S

saint00

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If you are saying the table was tight then i would say this would be over aggressive based on the fact you were queen high and unsuited, the chances of a caller having an ace would be very high and if in fact you did have a caller expect either a pocket pair or suited high connecters. I am very interested in what the winning hand was and also the pay outs. but if you were looking for a quick double up or a bully bet this could have worked, but i would not recomend it on a tight table.
 
Jillychemung

Jillychemung

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My initial reaction is that you should have just called but payout structure could influence that and whether you had been pushing from a small stack earlier to get to 55K (prior to having yur BB stolen). It would seem that with an M of 3 you probably should have been shoving a few more hands earlier.
 
newfyninja

newfyninja

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THe payouts were pretty close to:
1 - $170
2 - $105
3 - $70
4 - $55
5 - $45
6 - $39

With me in the SB and only the BB to go I wasn't looking for the double up per se but just a steal to replace what I just had poached. Probably classic unnecessary tilt play.

For the curious they turned over QJ os. I hit my 10 but the J came as well.
 
N

nudist30

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I would have to say this

In some respects that bet is quite large but if you had a really tight table image thats not a bad bet. THen again the blinds are large so not sure if that was an extremely huge bet. the payout structure would be nice to know.
 
Jillychemung

Jillychemung

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With this payout structure and the stacks of all players you def have a decent shot at 3rd or better. I'd fold this preflop and look to shove any decent hand in the next 3 hands to put pressure on equal or less stacks. Opponent made a risky call if you had been tight but made a good call if you had been active.
 
zachvac

zachvac

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you're definitely at the point where you should be shoving or folding. I think we need to muck this though. We don't have very good fold equity against hands we beat, since the BB is priced in with any A or pair and probably most kings. I'm surprised QJ called here, by all rights that SHOULD have been one of the few better hands you folded out. We only have a slightly better than average hand (Q7 is average IIRC), so we don't want to rely on showdown equity, and we don't get much fold equity from a shove. I don't like the shove, your stack is big enough you can wait a few hands until you hopefully pick up a high K or hand with an A. If the blinds come around again and you get QT, it becomes an easy shove, but at this point I think you can just muck this. You've got 2 stacks smaller than you and all the players are essentially shortstacked besides the one chip leader. Still incredibly surprised that the BB risked his chip lead with QJ to a shove, but I guess he just hoped he was live, didn't even think he was ahead lol. But the stack sizes are big enough that calling with QJ can not be profitable at all there.

But you'll see bad play, and it will hurt you from time to time. Just know that if you'd shoved AA he would have incorrectly paid you off.
 
Richyl2008

Richyl2008

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Maybe I'm completely wrong about this, which is very possible, but I kinda like the shove. Q10 is a better than random hand and you only have 1 player to go through, which if your read is that he is fairly tight than i would think you would have some decent fold equity, in reality the villain really should have folded his hand rather than risk his comfortable chip lead on a qj. Theres also quite a few hands that he may call with where your a coinflip or you have 2 live cards which your not in terrible shape, the odds are in your favor that the majority of the time he does not have a hand that he can call you here. Folding and waiting for a better spot I think is iffy because you will have to shove through a lot more people the closer you get to the blinds. And once you hit the blinds you will be essentially crippled, so if you dont get that hand you're waiting for you may have to shove allin utg through the whole table regardless of your cards rather than get blinded off and lose all of your fold equity. The top heavy payout structure should make you take some calculated risks and go for first rather than try and squeek your way up and let others bust out
 
M

marble

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If you are saying the table was tight then i would say this would be over aggressive based on the fact you were queen high and unsuited, the chances of a caller having an ace would be very high and if in fact you did have a caller expect either a pocket pair or suited high connecters. I am very interested in what the winning hand was and also the pay outs. but if you were looking for a quick double up or a bully bet this could have worked, but i would not recomend it on a tight table.

not to pick on you or anything, just want to point out that i think it's opposite what you're saying. if you don't recommend this on a tight table then i'm assumming you would on a loose table. i don't think our hero wants a call in this spot, so a tight table would be best. in other words, the looser they are, the wider range of holding they are willing to call with...not good if you don't want a call.

btw...calling an all in w/ qj is not that tight, so the assessment might be off a little.

but if it was a real tight table, i would be moving all in twice per orbit with any two cards. that's just me.
 
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