Still no final table - please help me analyze the last hand.

flint

flint

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Stacks: - flintti with 57088 - reddyforu with 52690 - moosecular with 136781 - Kay5380 with 161911 - gernotDE with 82171 - KrabiFan with 118748 - Smoover1986 with 74306

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Blinds: 3,000/6,000 -100
Site: party poker
* - Dealt to flintti:
as.gif
kd.gif

* - Sklansky group 2
Preflop:
* - flintti raises [18,000]
**- 4 players fold.
* - KrabiFan raises [27,000]
**- 1 players fold.
* - flintti is all-in [38,988]
* - KrabiFan calls [26,988]
* - Total folds this street: 5
* - Potsize: 92976
Flop:
4d.gif
qd.gif
9c.gif

* - Potsize: 92976
Turn:
qs.gif

* - Potsize: 92976
River:
2c.gif

* - KrabiFan shows a full house, Nines full of Queens:
9s.gif
9d.gif

* - flintti shows a pair of Queens:
as.gif
kd.gif

* - KrabiFan wins 120,676 chips from the main pot with a full house, Nines full of Queens.

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My comments:
Well, I thought that my play was good. Maybe it would have been better to raise all-in straight away?... I can understand the re-raise by Krabi because I had been raising 3 times out of the last 5 hands. I still like my play, but not his as I would shove to his re-raise mostly with greater pairs.

BTW, I finished at 13th. I have been getting good positions in tourneys, but I have been finishing outside the final table where most of the money is. I think part of it has to do with me being a bit too aggressive before the final table and getting quite bad beats hasn't helped either.
 
c9h13no3

c9h13no3

Is drawing with AK
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Open shove your stack. You don't have enough chips to afford missing the flop, and being forced to fold. Also, this might fold out a hand like 99, and you won't have to worry about coinflipping for you life.

The only time I raise is if I'm up against an opponent who is loose preflop, but conservative post flop. Raising & getting 1 call, and then shoving any flop will make you slightly more chips in this situation. However, it'll be hard for anyone to fold with as much $ as there is in the pot.

Other than that, you lost a coinflip. Too bad villain didn't turn over AQ.
 
Egon Towst

Egon Towst

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You are short-stacked and should be playing push-or-fold.

If you open with an all-in, it`s possible the opponent will fold his 99. He may not do so, because he has you comfortably covered, but it improves your chances somewhat.
 
I

iwin

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you should have pushed allin.... the others would have folded

but yes... he had you covered. so the best option for would have been to fold his raise.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Dorkus Malorkus

Dorkus Malorkus

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Open shoving is probably best here. The problem with a standard raise is that if you're called (a) you will miss most flops, (b) you will usually be out of position, and (c) a flop c-bet will pretty much be committing your entire stack.
 
Steveg1976

Steveg1976

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In this hand you have an M of 5-6. It is Shove or fold time.

Additionally, you raised he reraised. When you shoved the rest of your chips in that is a pretty easy call considering the amount of chips in the pot and that chance to eleminate you from the tournament.

By the time your M is that low your choices really are limited to shove or fold. Keep a watch on your M and when it gets around 10 it time to start making some major moves or you run the risk of shoving and being called with any two cards by the chip leaders because doubling you up isn't that big a threat compared to eliminating you from the tournament.

I hope that wasn't to rambling...
 
nc_royals

nc_royals

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Probably same Result

Probably the same result if you would have pushed all in to start but I did here Daniel Negranu say once that if your raise approached 30% of your stack it was better to push it all in. Sounds like youre on the right track. Sometimes I think I'm opposite of you and get too conservative as I approach the final table. Good Luck
 
kesza

kesza

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Yeah, tipical, I hate AK. The number one suckout hand from tournaments for me. The number two is any middle pair..
But I think the biggest mistake at your play was the allin move to the flop reraise.
 
flint

flint

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But I think the biggest mistake at your play was the allin move to the flop reraise.

I don't agree. I had been raising a lot and wanted him to re-raise me with any hand that looked half decent. He just had the 9s this time instead of the AQ or AJ.

It is hard to say if I should have went all-in straight away alreast this way I could have had him dominated. I think it would have been hard for him to fold the 9s anyways as I had been raising a lot in previous hands...
 
S

switch0723

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not much to analyse here. Pushing all in first to act is probably the only other thing that you could have, and probably shuld have, done
 
Dorkus Malorkus

Dorkus Malorkus

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It is hard to say if I should have went all-in straight away alreast this way I could have had him dominated. I think it would have been hard for him to fold the 9s anyways as I had been raising a lot in previous hands...

People (well, me anyway) aren't saying you should have shoved preflop because it would have made 99 more likely to fold. That's a really horrible, results-oriented way of thinking.

I'm saying shove because (a) our stack is small enough to justify it, and (b) in general it leads to us encountering fewer unfavourable situations. For the sake of analyzing the play I don't really care whether villain had AA or 83o (and it's best to leave results out of posts like this if you want constructive analysis, because many people won't look beyond the results).
 
c9h13no3

c9h13no3

Is drawing with AK
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...it would have made 99 more likely to fold. That's a really horrible, results-oriented way of thinking.
I don't think so. When I'm this close to making a final table, I think every time we add 15% to our stack without coinflipping is a win. The only time I actually want my stack to be in the middle is when I have a high chance of crushing the opponent, not when I'm simply coinflipping.

The only way you can argue that raising small is better than shoving if it somehow causes pocketpairs to fold more, and aces weaker than ours to call/raise. However, I think this is the opposite. Just dumping your chips into the middle may very well cause players playing hands like 22-77 to fold, while AQ may still look fairly strong if they think we're holding a pocket pair as well, since they're only dominated by 4 hands (QQ+ & AK).

Also, taking into account position, an open shove from UTG looks VERY strong, and is very likely to fold out most of the hands that we're coinflipping with.

The only time I would raise small UTG like this is with JJ+, where I want callers (and I hope to get re-raised), and I'm shoving pretty much any flop.
 
Last edited:
Dorkus Malorkus

Dorkus Malorkus

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I don't think so.

If OP hadn't said villain had 99, how many posts in here would be stating "shove arrrrin to get 99 to fold"?

The rest of your post is bang on the mark though.
 
arkadiy

arkadiy

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Under 10BB, he is pretty short-stacked. Shove pre-flop. He would've called either way, but it would be better play.
 
S

snrcreech

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The only good play here is to fold pre flop, but being short stacked and seeing A K you did as most of us do went all in. You most likely would have been called regardless.
 
G

GivPeace

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very tough spot I just don't know if I can agree on the shove only because of your position. I mean your Under the gun with the 2nd largest stack in the SB. With this scenario I would call the 6,000 and call a raise 3xBB , fold or push if it is above the 3xBB raise( this depends on how many bad beats I have taken in the last half hr. ) This gives you a chance to abstract more value from your hand if you were to hit the flop and minimize you risk of being eliminated... Though overall I believe your villain would have raised past 3xBB and you would be screwed this was just not meant to be.......and I agree the raise pre-flop was bad in comparison to your stack size left you commented so you might as well just push then if your going to raise. Good luck on making your Final Table.
 
kadafi

kadafi

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Open shove your stack. You don't have enough chips to afford missing the flop, and being forced to fold. Also, this might fold out a hand like 99, and you won't have to worry about coinflipping for you life.

The only time I raise is if I'm up against an opponent who is loose preflop, but conservative post flop. Raising & getting 1 call, and then shoving any flop will make you slightly more chips in this situation. However, it'll be hard for anyone to fold with as much $ as there is in the pot.

Other than that, you lost a coinflip. Too bad villain didn't turn over
AQ.


LOL if he turned over AQ then he would of had trip q's.
 
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