Squeeze QQ on bb vs 4bet shove - Would you play differently and how?

bablovod

bablovod

stupid parody of the game
Loyaler
Joined
May 31, 2017
Total posts
3,268
Awards
13
https://www.cardschat.com/replayer/524JKYUfW
That hand occurred yesterday at MicroMillions $ 11. I wonder if this squeeze was necessary here. In front of 3 players I think this squeeze is ok. Would you play differently and how?



maybe the 3-bet was an extra one. on the flop, you could put pressure in 1\3 banks. and on the turn, the opponent might have discarded the cards.
but this is a judgment after viewing. in reality, I probably would have done the same, and maybe immediately started.:(
 
dallam

dallam

Legend
Loyaler
Joined
Aug 2, 2018
Total posts
2,237
Awards
25
When 3 people joined it was definitely a smart idea having QQ to make most of them fold, or the smaller stacks to go all-in with medium cards. So I think 6300was a smart bet. However the guy who had the 2nd largest stack suprised me, how he acted.
He just called the two bet made every doors open to limp in, and it was almost a 4-way party. I think with AK and that stack a 5BB reraise would be smarter from him. Then you showed power as chipleader and he tried to defend his hand against you. I'm not sure it was the right time from him considering that you could have easier KK or AA as well in that position with that raise.
 
F

fundiver199

Legend
Loyaler
Joined
Jun 3, 2019
Total posts
10,280
Awards
1
Yes its absolutely nessesary to 3-bet QQ in this spot. You dont want to take the hand 4-ways out of position. However as someone already said, your sizing is to small. The goal here is to get everyone to fold, or at most get 1 player to call in position. 12BB is the minimum, and I would not mind a really large 3-bet like 15BB either as an exploit, if you are more or less unknown to these players.

It looks like one of those hands, where you would not have worried about it, if you had won. And yes it sucks to lose, but its also part of poker and can not be avoided. If the opponent had shown up with AA or KK, then of course you would need to ask yourself, if these are the only hands, he play this way. But since he showed up with AK, that is obviously not the case, and then you can not fold QQ to his backraise.
 
jaworek1405

jaworek1405

Legend
Joined
Jul 2, 2013
Total posts
1,003
Awards
8
Hello, I agree in large part with guys. Absolutely it is right game. I also think that 3bet pre flop should be a little bigger, because in this situation we play OOP. Yes, it is possible sometimes that opponent slow play pre flop strong hands like KK+ and Ako like here, because behind him is one short stack and one player with about 20bb in stack and they can sometimes will play allin with something. It seems that opponent intentionally slow play pre flop this Ako, but I don't see any escapy here with QQ. So I think that hero played this hand correctly. GL :)
 
F

fundiver199

Legend
Loyaler
Joined
Jun 3, 2019
Total posts
10,280
Awards
1
Yes, it is possible sometimes that opponent slow play pre flop strong hands like KK+ and Ako like here, because behind him is one short stack and one player with about 20bb in stack and they can sometimes will play allin with something.

Sometimes that weird back-raise will be KK or AA springing the trap. But in my experience I also expect to see a middling pair like 77-TT a ton of the time. People call those hands in position to try and flop a set for cheap. When someone puts in a 3-bet, setmining is no longer profitable. But instead of folding they go crazy and turn their hand into a 4-bet bluff.

Or they have some random crap or occationally AK, which it is probably really bad to play like this. With AK you want someone behind with a small pair to get out of the way rather than jam it, and you dont want to invite a multiway pot. So AK should almost certainly have 3-bet, but when Hero woke up with QQ in the blinds, the result would have ended up being the same anyway :)
 
deyvsonflp

deyvsonflp

Legend
Joined
Oct 23, 2017
Total posts
1,560
Awards
6
Thanks for the feedback. I hadn't really thought my 3bet was small. I'll adjust that. GL GL
 
gardin555

gardin555

Legend
Loyaler
Joined
Oct 3, 2015
Total posts
3,687
Awards
20
https://www.cardschat.com/replayer/524JKYUfW
That hand occurred yesterday at MicroMillions $ 11. I wonder if this squeeze was necessary here. In front of 3 players I think this squeeze is ok. Would you play differently and how?

Hi Deyvson,
I agree with fundiver199, (is a very good explanation) the squeez was too small bet, because the goal here is to get everyone to fold, to minimize the variance, dont let to see cheaply the flop, and keep just with one player on heads up.
I use how a guide to bet in similar situation, multiply x4bb and +1bb for each limp here and add 1 or 2 bb when I am out of position or when one big stack player are in the hand.
Ej 1400x4: 5600x2 11200 (each player in the hand)+2800 (2bb): 14000 aprox +..
because I think that you shouldnt bet for value here, (since QQ is beaten by AA / KK) but you need to beting for defense your queens hand.
But maybe the bet amount depend of the knowledge of the opponent with big stack too, to make him fold.
Bad beat at the end, good luck on the next tourny!
 
erik_lima

erik_lima

Rock Star
Joined
May 31, 2020
Total posts
219
The squeeze is good, there is no doubt. I think the size could be just a little bit bigger.

The call is ok. I don't like all in so deep without see the flop, but sometimes it's necessary.
 
P

P86

Visionary
Joined
May 1, 2017
Total posts
800
Awards
2
Yeah it's still a good play with QQ maybe bigger bet but the KA play was going to call even if you shove so nothing to do there
 
W

WJMKAM

Rock Star
Joined
Oct 17, 2021
Total posts
166
Awards
1
AK will call. AK will fail for me often, but have success against me. My last 2 CC Silver freerolls have ended will me going all in JJ and getting the AK call. K's both times.

You just want to get the other hands to fold to go heads up against the AK. And hopefully not see high cards on the table.
 
uri73796

uri73796

Visionary
Joined
Jan 19, 2016
Total posts
738
Awards
2
it depends on the opponent who opens and on the situation
 
VovanBaron

VovanBaron

RiddlesInTheShadow
Joined
Nov 24, 2015
Total posts
1,931
Awards
14
https://www.cardschat.com/replayer/524JKYUfW
That hand occurred yesterday at MicroMillions $ 11. I wonder if this squeeze was necessary here. In front of 3 players I think this squeeze is ok. Would you play differently and how?
You played very good your hand exept squeeze size,it should be bigger,about 11bb min,I would use 14-15bb for value.
And call push is very good,I would play the same way!
 
E

ElmerS

Rising Star
Joined
Aug 1, 2021
Total posts
19
I agree with the comments above that the 3-bet was a bit small. In position it would be fine but out of position I would go a bit bigger around 3x initial raise + 1x for each caller. So 10BB in this case.
But the call is fine at the end.
The only hands you can call-4bet are AK and AQ or he would have played AA in a very bad way.
And because you block 2 of the Queens you are almost sure he has AK and you are favourite.
Just not your lucky day.
 
P

ppartizan2

Rock Star
Joined
Sep 26, 2021
Total posts
224
Awards
1
I would of immediately all in after the 1200 call,because he might easily have AA and i dont want to be lured in to the trap,Id rather all in immediately because that does put a ton of pressure on him.
 
oarroyo

oarroyo

Visionary
Joined
Jun 27, 2020
Total posts
521
Awards
1
PY
He played well! With QQ I would call a raise or although no one has raised I would raise it, but of course with QQQ if I never let go of my hand!
 
Rob Hobson

Rob Hobson

Legend
Loyaler
Joined
Feb 2, 2012
Total posts
3,680
Awards
2
BR
I would play the same way. In my point of view QQ is a strong hand pref lop. In this hand the opponent was very lucky down the river streets. AK unsuited is a strong draw, but still depend upon the streets, more than QQ does.
 
theANMATOR

theANMATOR

Legend
Joined
Jan 29, 2019
Total posts
1,250
Awards
1
https://www.cardschat.com/replayer/524JKYUfW
That hand occurred yesterday at MicroMillions $ 11. I wonder if this squeeze was necessary here. In front of 3 players I think this squeeze is ok. Would you play differently and how?

Everyone agrees - as do I that the squeeze was correct. Sizing should be adjusted and everyone also agrees here as well.

Just thinking out loud - call preflop.
Pot preflop 6410.

A/K villain cbets 2985? and maybe we get another opponents and we call.
Pot pre turn 15365.
Now either MP1 or SB has 1/1 pot size bet remaining. And A/K villain has about 2/1 SPR.

Turn is blank A/K, either a reckless LAG is betting again - and we have an easy large 3bet spot - or as a very aggressive move - jam. But a solid villain is checking this card isn't he?

If versus a solid player he checks and we overbet the pot to say - 22k - is A/K calling?

Just a thought - He probably is - but it's just a different line to think about.
 
robertboz

robertboz

Rock Star
Joined
Aug 6, 2016
Total posts
406
Awards
3
final table

did I play well QQ vs AK this hand? pokerstars Hand # 231863701877: # 3281653540 Tournament, Hold'em No Limit Freeroll - Level XVIII (2000/4000) - 2021/12/02 01:10:31 EET [2021/12/01 ET]
Table „1: 3: 3281653540 3 '9-max 1st place is the button
1st place: Shooter0111 (13037 in chips) is placed
2nd place: Wiljosp (49638 in chips)
3rd place: robertboz (51586 in chips)
5th place: 806 chips
: Goo) 79966 in chips )
7th place: 8Alfa8 (47433 in chips)
8th place: ha hello! (55656 in chips)
Shooter0111: post ante 400
Wiljosp: post ante 400
robertboz: post ante 400
gooo_money: post ante 400
Mootso: post ante 400
8Alfa8: post ante 400
ha salut !: post ante 400
Wiljosp: post small blind 2000
robertboz: post big blind 4000
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Distribuit lui robertboz [Qh Qs]
gooo_money: raises 8000 to 12000
Mootso:
o8 folds : fold
! : folds
Shooter0111: folds
Wiljosp: folds
robertboz: plusează 39186 la 51186 și este all-in
gooo_money: apelează 39186
*** FLOP *** [3s 3d Ts]
*** TURN *** [3s 3d Ts] [Anunț]
*** RIVER *** [3s 3d Ts Ad] 6 ♥
*** SHOW DOWN ***
robertboz: show [Qh Qs] (două perechi, Queens and
Threes) gooo_money: show [Kh Ah] (two pairs, Aces) and
Threes) gooo_money gathered 107172 of the pot
 
Rui Ferreira

Rui Ferreira

Visionary
Joined
May 8, 2017
Total posts
675
Awards
2
I think that regardless of the size of the 3bet you make I think it would be the same fate, the villain would have gone all in and you wouldn't fold so the fate would be the same, the hand was well played, unfortunately the villain got lucky
 
A

Asianlevis501

Rising Star
Joined
Nov 18, 2021
Total posts
10
Man you did the right thing. Some time river rats get lucky.
 
YuriSLopes

YuriSLopes

Rock Star
Joined
Apr 26, 2021
Total posts
245
Awards
1
Would be nice to have some villain stats.

How far were you in the tourney?
Seems pretty far taking into consideration stack sizes, blinds and all.

I would need way more info to be able to tell you if I would play differently.
Early stage against a TAG I wouldn't call but possibly yes to a LAG.
Mid stage I would play the same way and also at later stages.

Know what I type on the chat box when this happens to me? "Oh, the river!!!"
 
7

7jules

Enthusiast
Joined
Dec 6, 2018
Total posts
46
Had the very same hand and result yesterday! hard to play it differently. If the result is always going to occur - a point to consider in this situation is that the third Q on the table, adds strength to your opponents hand, to the usual "lose" situation, of a possible straight for your opponent, by you hold the missing card i.e. the Queen.
Always good to slow it down,..... but you can't slow down a shove!!
 
Top