Some advice on this hand please guys

[foley1982]

Hi Guys

Played in my local poker tournie last night in a £40 freezeout. I decided to alter my play in the early stages to what i normally play by limping in with small pocket pairs and with suited connecters, picture cards etc in postition. My aim being to see a few flops, build a stack and hopefully get a feel for how my opponents are playing. Starting stack was 7500 and i managed to win a few nice pots with KJo and with trip 6's to get myself up to 13000. I wasn't raising many pots preflop and was feeling quite comfortable at the table until the following hand occurred.

Blinds are 100-200 with 10 mins to go before the break. Im UTG+1 and find QQ. I considered my table image and that if i raised i would likely scare my opponents off so decided to limp in hoping for a raise with a view to reraising. Unfortunately there was no raise just a few limpers and the BB decided to check his option. So 4 of us see a flop of QJ7 all clubs. BB leads out for 600 and i make it 2000 to go. Action folds round to the BB who after thinking for 2 mins decides to shove and has me covered. My personal read was that he had the K or A of clubs and was on a flush draw purely because it took him a while to shove. I considered my options and decided to call knowing that if he did have the flush i still had outs to hit quads or a full house if the board paired. He flipped over Kc3c for the flopped flush and the turn and river were blanks for me.

I have gone over the hand a few times in my head and thought about what i could of done differently but some advice would also be very helpful. What's your view?

 

[orangepeeleo]

Hey,

I don't think i would have limped in ep with QQ, i done the same at my local casino once with KK, no raise followed but 6 limpers and i had to fold on the flop after i bet out and had a raiser, a re-raiser and a re-re-raiser, turns out i'd let someone in with 86o and they had flopped a straight!!

Nowadays i'd put in a sizeable raise, purely because if you let a lot of limpers in and a mixed low board comes you aren't going to be folding with your over pair, if you just steal the blinds then fair enough, even though you've waited a long time for a hand like that just muck it and remember that you played it correctly and not every big hand gets paid off, its better than stacking off to someone who limped in and hit 2 pair with their 9,6 etc

Also someone raising big UTG/UTG+1 ,in my eyes anyway, is showing strength and it takes a big hand to call or come over the top with, at least if you raise with it you can put any callers, or raisers for that matter, on a relatively small range of hands, obv depending on how they've been playing, what you've picked up about them etc

Hope my 2 cents worth is helpful.

 

[Jillychemung]

Unfortunatley this is what happens more times than you would think probable when you limp a big pocket pair in EP and get a number of callers.

 

[KerouacsDog]

no, no, no, no!
When will people realise that hands like QQ, KK, AA, AK are yours to build the pot PF with. You have to raise with them, to get rid of the junk that people limp with PF, so that you have a good idea where you are when the flop comes. And so what if everyone would have folded with a PF raise from you, I bet now you'd have rather done that and won the blinds, than losing your whole stack to a justified limper with the flopped flush.

 

[foley1982]

100% right my limping days UTG are over. I was annoyed with myself that i didnt raise and let several players see a flop for cheap. A pot is a pot even if it is just the blinds at least i dont jepordise my tournament.

 

[robwhufc]

100% right my limping days UTG are over. I was annoyed with myself that i didnt raise and let several players see a flop for cheap. A pot is a pot even if it is just the blinds at least i dont jepordise my tournament.

Correct in hindsight, but you were quite clear on why you limped in the first place. If you'd had a raiser as hoped and you played back, you could have won a significant hand, 10 times+ what you would have won by just getting the blinds. It is often these hands that are difference makers in a tournament, if you stick your neck out a bit at take a risk, you can often add significant value in hands like this. One things for sure, later on in the tournament you'd be in situations where you would be taking more risk than this, with a worse hand.

That said, what was the make up of the table? Were early limpers being punished and raised? If not, all you are really doing is sweetening the pot for future players, but if there is a lot of late position raising going on, there's nothing wrong with making the odd tricky play. Problem is, when you get into a pattern of limping with weak hands and raising with big ones, an astute player is soon going to pick up on that. You need to vary it a bit, and that is what you were doing from your initial post.

It just didn't work out here, and you got dragged into it by the flop.

 

[master frenchy]

Foley, you had 6 callers, you were unlucky mate and the flop was a disastor for you. You had the outs, didn't hit and had an early bath. Well could of done if you werent driving me.

That said I think my forte is the cash tables. I do sod all in the touns down there but always pick up on the cash table after....

 

[master frenchy]

Just to add, you play for too tight for your own good.

 

[RamDen]

I agree with others here that a pre-flop raise is the way to go but as you have decided to limp in why not just call the flop and see what the 2 still in the pot after you decide to do
You asked for information from the BB with your raise which you got by his push
With the blinds still pretty low in relation to your stack i think a fold to the push woulda been the right decision

 

[CfPoker]

I don't see too much wrong with this.

Limping with these strong hands can be very lucrative as it is often hard for an opponent to put you on the hand. A flop of 56T might have someone with AT willing to play for example.

With this flop though the villian can have:

- Top pair - unlikely he'd push here.
- Two pair - possible, and a reasonable play.
- Set - possible, and a reasonable play.
- Flush draw - possible, classic semi bluff.
- Straight draw - highly unlikely.
- Nut flush - unlikely, as he'd probably just call rather than shove.
- Low flush - possible, reasonable play

You're only really worried here if he's flopped the flush, but as we can see he may also be doing this with 2p/set/fd - all of which we beat. Couple this with the fact we have outs even if he has a flush and I think this is an ok call.

Make a note of this play, you might run into this player and the same situation again.