Questionable call

MrBove

MrBove

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I'm not sure how to feel about this call, it's the strangest one I've seen in a while. The guy who made it wasn't an idiot, so I'm trying to figure out if it was really justified or not.

pokerstars Game #17041158409: Tournament #86344304, $10+$1 Hold'em No Limit - Level IX (300/600) - 2008/04/27 - 20:33:48 (ET)
Table '86344304 3' 9-max Seat #2 is the button
Seat 1: jonnyjackal (4650 in chips)
Seat 2: psc205 (5510 in chips)
Seat 3: capones99 (1260 in chips) is sitting out
Seat 4: SupaDupaG (11110 in chips)
Seat 5: Cunnus (2930 in chips)
Seat 6: KingCurtis67 (9600 in chips)
Seat 7: Fr33 Lancer (1785 in chips)
Seat 9: Itwillbemine (3655 in chips)
jonnyjackal: posts the ante 50
psc205: posts the ante 50
capones99: posts the ante 50
SupaDupaG: posts the ante 50
Cunnus: posts the ante 50
KingCurtis67: posts the ante 50
Fr33 Lancer: posts the ante 50
Itwillbemine: posts the ante 50
capones99: posts small blind 300
SupaDupaG: posts big blind 600
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to Fr33 Lancer [Th As]
Cunnus: folds
KingCurtis67: folds
Fr33 Lancer: raises 1135 to 1735 and is all-in
Itwillbemine: folds
jonnyjackal: folds
psc205: folds
capones99: folds
SupaDupaG: calls 1135
capones99 has returned
*** FLOP *** [Js 4d 2s]
KingCurtis67 said, "wow"
*** TURN *** [Js 4d 2s] [Ts]
*** RIVER *** [Js 4d 2s Ts] [Kd]
*** SHOW DOWN ***
SupaDupaG: shows [2c 3s] (a pair of Deuces)
Fr33 Lancer: shows [Th As] (a pair of Tens)
Fr33 Lancer collected 4170 from pot
KingCurtis67 said, "almost"
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 4170 | Rake 0
Board [Js 4d 2s Ts Kd]
Seat 1: jonnyjackal folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 2: psc205 (button) folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 3: capones99 (small blind) folded before Flop
Seat 4: SupaDupaG (big blind) showed [2c 3s] and lost with a pair of Deuces
Seat 5: Cunnus folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 6: KingCurtis67 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 7: Fr33 Lancer showed [Th As] and won (4170) with a pair of Tens
Seat 9: Itwillbemine folded before Flop (didn't bet)


I feel my push was justified, decent enough hand and the blinds were coming up fast. There were 8 players left, 5 paid. The blinds were getting high yes, and calling an all in for around 20% of your stack is understandable with some marginal hands, just to eliminate, chip up and get closer to the money, but 23 off? Yeah he was already BB but I.....I just don't know. I'm so confused.
 
Melkor

Melkor

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Apr 20, 2007
Total posts
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Its Harrington's old 10:1 rule being used by the looks of it, a little marginally tbh. Harrington's rule, in case you aren't familiar with it, is that if a players tournament life is on the line and it costs you less than a tenth of your chips to call the all-in bet then you call with ATC (any two cards).

The big blinds pot odds of about 2.8:1 had to figure into it as well, and the fact that he was live if you didn't have a pair (you aren't pushing with a deuce or trey and he has the odds to call even against AK).

As the short stack, these are the calls you want to double up, and it worked in your favour.
 
C

CfPoker

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Jan 21, 2008
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332
Yeah, as soon as I saw the 11k stack I imediately thought of the 10-1 rule. He's also getting a decent price.

pot: 3035 (if my adding up is correct)
to call: 1135

This is why I try and never let myself get this shortstacked, because you will end up in a situation such as this where a big stack is compelled to call you with 23o and end up hitting :)
 
bob_tiger

bob_tiger

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Jul 8, 2007
Total posts
2,735
Its Harrington's old 10:1 rule being used by the looks of it, a little marginally tbh. Harrington's rule, in case you aren't familiar with it, is that if a players tournament life is on the line and it costs you less than a tenth of your chips to call the all-in bet then you call with ATC (any two cards).

The big blinds pot odds of about 2.8:1 had to figure into it as well, and the fact that he was live if you didn't have a pair (you aren't pushing with a deuce or trey and he has the odds to call even against AK).

As the short stack, these are the calls you want to double up, and it worked in your favour.

No offence to Harington or you but this post really caught my eye. I really don't think there are any rules in poker. To be honest depeding on situation i might fold some hands even if im getting 10:1, depeding on the game/stacks etc etc obviously. This is just my opinion but I think there is no such thing as rules in poker.
 
Melkor

Melkor

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Total posts
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No offence to Harington or you but this post really caught my eye. I really don't think there are any rules in poker. To be honest depeding on situation i might fold some hands even if im getting 10:1, depeding on the game/stacks etc etc obviously. This is just my opinion but I think there is no such thing as rules in poker.

I said it was Harrington's rule, or guideline if you like, and one that I follow. I never implied it should be a universal poker rule. I feel that opportunities to knock people out would be missed if I didn't pay attention to this 'guideline', if you prefer.

Stack sizes are the thing that dictates this play, you are either 10x bigger than your opponent or not, so I can't see how stack sizes would create a situation when I wouldn't call it, could you give an example of when they might?
 
B

Bentheman87

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Sep 6, 2007
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794
"No offence to Harington or you but this post really caught my eye. I really don't think there are any rules in poker. To be honest depeding on situation i might fold some hands even if im getting 10:1, depeding on the game/stacks etc etc obviously. This is just my opinion but I think there is no such thing as rules in poker."

Then you are making some huge blunders. If you're getting almost 3:1, like villian is here, then it's a mistake to fold, you should call with any two cards.

"I'm not sure how to feel about this call, it's the strangest one I've seen in a while. The guy who made it wasn't an idiot, so I'm trying to figure out if it was really justified or not."

Why is it strange? He made the correct call, a fold would be very strange. His pot odds were 2.7:1. 2 3 offsuit against ace 10 offsuit is a 1.94:1 underdog, and his pot odds were better than that. And he knew you're M was so low (btw how did you let it get that low? You need to be shoving with any two cards before your M drops below 3) so you could have ATC.
 
t1riel

t1riel

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He was the big blind and he already had a third of it posted. Not only that, he was the chipleader. There are more reasons to call than to fold.
 
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