This is a discussion on Overpair JJ on flop within the online poker forums, in the Tournament Hand Analysis section; Not new to poker, but after a few years of no-time I'm playing again. I'm doing fine with ROI but sample size is too low.
Not new to poker, but after a few years of no-time I'm playing again. I'm doing fine with ROI but sample size is too low. This hands raises questions to me. Third hand in SNG Turbo. No data on villain (I'm using PokerTracker).
PokerStars Hand #223072975261: Tournament #3112157830, $6.45+$0.55 USD Hold'em No Limit - Level I (10/20) - 2021/01/26 10:55:50 ET
Table '3112157830 1' 9-max Seat #2 is the button
Seat 1: Luke141269 (1894 in chips)
Seat 2: Mihska (1487 in chips)
Seat 3: Saubleshark (1457 in chips)
Seat 4: Lećo Empirista (1497 in chips)
Seat 5: BEZZIWOLF (1417 in chips)
Seat 6: Charon84 (1497 in chips)
Seat 7: jetbean (1497 in chips)
Seat 8: BIGPERSON10 (1377 in chips)
Seat 9: ArtiBo82 (1377 in chips)
Luke141269: posts the ante 3
Mihska: posts the ante 3
Saubleshark: posts the ante 3
Lećo Empirista: posts the ante 3
BEZZIWOLF: posts the ante 3
Charon84: posts the ante 3
jetbean: posts the ante 3
BIGPERSON10: posts the ante 3
ArtiBo82: posts the ante 3
Saubleshark: posts small blind 10
Lećo Empirista: posts big blind 20
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to Charon84 [Jd Js]
BEZZIWOLF: raises 40 to 60
Charon84: raises 118 to 178
BIGPERSON10: calls 178
Lećo Empirista: folds
BEZZIWOLF: calls 118
*** FLOP *** [Th 8c 5h]
Charon84: bets 400
BIGPERSON10: raises 796 to 1196 and is all-in
Do I beat anything in his range? Is A10, or XhXh in his range?
1. Is my 3bet size PF correct?
2. Is my Cbet too big?
And this one? Same here. No data.
PokerStars Hand #223080860996: Tournament #3112326742, $6.45+$0.55 USD Hold'em No Limit - Level III (25/50) - 2021/01/26 14:39:54 ET
Table '3112326742 1' 9-max Seat #8 is the button
Seat 1: gatoulis_Dim (1370 in chips)
Seat 2: BlooDFire113 (1504 in chips)
Seat 3: Karolek81 (2406 in chips)
Seat 4: nervous30 (1248 in chips)
Seat 5: IncrementX (1630 in chips)
Seat 6: Charon84 (1332 in chips)
Seat 8: blheatvision (2668 in chips)
Seat 9: Earlharry (1342 in chips)
gatoulis_Dim: posts the ante 6
BlooDFire113: posts the ante 6
Karolek81: posts the ante 6
nervous30: posts the ante 6
IncrementX: posts the ante 6
Charon84: posts the ante 6
blheatvision: posts the ante 6
Earlharry: posts the ante 6
Earlharry: posts small blind 25
gatoulis_Dim: posts big blind 50
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to Charon84 [Jc Js]
Karolek81: calls 50
nervous30: calls 50
Charon84: raises 240 to 290
Karolek81: calls 240
*** FLOP *** [Ts 3s 4h]
Charon84: bets 610
Karolek81: raises 610 to 1220
Welcome to CC forum. If you use the free hand converter, the hand histories becomes so much easier to read. So please do that next time or even do it now and post them as replies. I tried to convert the first hand, but it failed, so apparently the hand history is incomplete or edited.
It seem like UTG opened, and you were UTG+1 with JJ. This is a bit of a rough spot, because you have so many players left to act behind you, and often I would just flat JJ. Its way different, if HJ open, and you are CO. Then JJ is a slam dunk 3-bet almost always. Your hand history does not show the pot size, but it seems like, you C-bet was a bit on the large side. A small bet size is preferred here, since you basically just want to give bad odds to hands like AK or AQ to continue.
As played you already created a very large pot, so when the field caller jams it in, you pretty much have to call it off. Hard to say what his range is, since cold calling a 3-bet is pretty unconventional in the first place, but he can have some draws or top pair, that you are ahead off. He can also have a set or an overpair, which you lose to.
In this one there were two limpers in front of you, and with larger blinds the effective stack size was now less than 30BB. This is a slam dunk isolation spot, and when you flop an overpair, you absolutely have to get it in. But again your C-bet is a bit large. When you bet half your remaining stack, you are essentially saying, that you will never fold, so its almost the same as jamming. You can bet like 300-350 here and then put the rest in on the turn.
This time its even more of a slam dunk call, when he jam. Not only are you already committed to the pot because of your large C-bet, you are also way ahead of his range. This guy limp-called preflop, so his range is way wider than in hand 1. Its also much less likely he had QQ-AA or TT, because those hands would normally have raised pre.
Thanks for your input Sidetracked and Fundiver199! Much appreciated. Next time I'll use the handconverter.
Hand 1: villain had trips on the flop (5-5)
Hand 2: villain had QQ.
In both hand my C-bet was too big. I already guessed that. But say I did less and the turn gives a card above my Jack. What to do then in this spot (especially hand 2 because villain check-raised the flop after limp calling preflop)? Still jam on turn?
In the first hand just calling preflop would have kept the pot smaller, and then you would not always have to stack off with an overpair. That being said the opponent did not get the right odds to setmine preflop in a 3-bet pot, so its just an example of a long term losing play, that got rewarded. I would not worry to much about it to be honest
In the second hand its also pretty bad, that he limp-called with QQ. And here, if he had raised it up, as he should, you would have 3-bet, and he could have gotten it all in pre with the same result. With 23BB effective running JJ into QQ is pretty much just a cooler, and nothing you can do about it.
If you had bet smaller on the flop in hand two, and an overcard had come on the turn, I would typically still be in stack off mode. In order for the opponent to have hit that overcard, it would pretty much have to be with TX or the flushdraw, so just because its there, does not mean, he always has it.
If for instance a K hit, you are still ahead of AT, QT, JT, J9, A5 of spades, Q9 of spades and so on and so forth. So typically this would still be a jam for value, but less so, if its also another spade completing the flushdraw. In that case I might check behind and make a decision on the river.