$ NL HE MTT: JJ in MP+1

[mariussica88]

Game

Hold'em

Game Format

No Limit

Table Format

MTT

Freeroll

1. Freeroll

Currency

$

LP has 17 hands played: VPIP 18 PFR 6 Limp 9 and 3-bet 0

I think that in this case only calls hands are: KK, AA, AKs. What do you guys think?

pokerstars, Hold'em No Limit - 15/30 (3 ante) - 9 players
Replay this hand on CardsChat

UTG: 1,802 (60 bb)
UTG+1: 2,331 (78 bb)
MP: 2,125 (71 bb)
MP+1 (Hero): 4,176 (139 bb)
LP: 4,086 (136 bb)
CO: 2,334 (78 bb)
BU: 1,874 (62 bb)
SB: 2,012 (67 bb)
BB: 3,890 (130 bb)

Pre-Flop: (72) Hero is MP+1 with J♠ J♦
UTG calls 30, 2 players fold, Hero raises to 162, LP 3-bets to 4,083 (all-in), 5 players fold, MP+1 (Hero) folds

Total pot: 426
LP wins 426

 

[Andyreas]

Was that a CC freeroll? I've seen players pushing here with any decent pocket pair line 99+ but indeed probably not worth the risk with JJ.

Not even sure if I'd call with AKs since you're behind to any pair.

So easy fold for me.

Edit: also 17 hands is definitely not a good same. Could be a "normal" player who just happen to got rubbish for most of those 17 hands.

 

[fundiver199]

I fold here as well. You are 136BB deep with the opponent, which is a lot to put in preflop with JJ, and you have no indication, this player is a maniac. I probably only call with KK and AA here. The only reason to call is, thats its a freeroll. Because of that you will sometimes see people ship it in with completely random hands, because they realise, they dont have time to play, and they are basically just trying to get rid of their chips. Like maybe his spouse called him, and he decided, she was more important than the freeroll

 

[eetenor]

LP has 17 hands played: VPIP 18 PFR 6 Limp 9 and 3-bet 0

I think that in this case only calls hands are: KK, AA, AKs. What do you guys think?

PokerStars, Hold'em No Limit - 15/30 (3 ante) - 9 players
Replay this hand on CardsChat

UTG: 1,802 (60 bb)
UTG+1: 2,331 (78 bb)
MP: 2,125 (71 bb)
MP+1 (Hero): 4,176 (139 bb)
LP: 4,086 (136 bb)
CO: 2,334 (78 bb)
BU: 1,874 (62 bb)
SB: 2,012 (67 bb)
BB: 3,890 (130 bb)

Pre-Flop: (72) Hero is MP+1 with J♠ J♦
UTG calls 30, 2 players fold, Hero raises to 162, LP 3-bets to 4,083 (all-in), 5 players fold, MP+1 (Hero) folds

Total pot: 426
LP wins 42

So you think the V is shoving AA KK QQ AKo AKs-but would the V really shove AK then if they were shoving that weak tight range? -
If that is truly the range for this V- then we call with AA and nothing else why risk our stack in this spot with KK when we are now blocking half + of their range?

 

[300HPGOD]

I think the above says it well where this is a fold based on stack depth and only 17 hands on villain and those 17 hands do not show any derangement. The only thing I will add is that I think your pre flop raise sizing is bigger than it needs to be. I think 120 or 135 is enough here and you don't need to be going 5.5x here. Its not a lot of chips that would have been saved but it would have been some especially if we are planning to fold to a 4 bet of very large sizing.

 

[mariussica88]

So you think the V is shoving AA KK QQ AKo AKs-but would the V really shove AK then if they were shoving that weak tight range? -
If that is truly the range for this V- then we call with AA and nothing else why risk our stack in this spot with KK when we are now blocking half + of their range?

No. I think that his range is more like AA, AKs, AQs, AJs,ATs, AQo+, 88+ and maybe KQs and given that I have to call all in, I don't think that at the beginning of the tournament this is an ok call.
Also he might have a small pair and don't know how to play it after the flop.

I would call with AA, KK, AKs in this spot. Maybe I am a bit to tight but in tournaments that are not freerolls I think it's correct decision.

*in freerolls there are players who shove like this any 2 cards (I don't think this player is one of them)

 

[Bnobob]

some pro players like to pull with 8'8 10'10 in a situation where villain is low on Bb he will probably have to play all his chips; In this case, you prefer to preserve your chips since you were in a comfortable situation...

 

[mariussica88]

Here is a similar situation but with smaller stacks. SB 149 hands played non of then in sit out: VPIP 11 PFR 3 Limp 9 and 3-bet 6

What do you guys do here? What is your calling range ?

PokerStars, Hold'em No Limit - 75/150 (15 ante) - 9 players


UTG: 2,408 (16 bb)
UTG+1: 8,947 (60 bb)
MP: 1,606 (11 bb)
MP+1: 2,199 (15 bb)
LP (Hero): 4,990 (33 bb)
CO: 4,916 (33 bb)
BU: 6,400 (43 bb)
SB: 3,331 (22 bb)
BB: 4,531 (30 bb)

Pre-Flop: (360) Hero is LP with J♦ J♠
4 players fold, Hero raises to 450, 2 players fold, SB 3-bets to 3,316 (all-in), 1 fold, Hero ?

 

[fundiver199]

Here is a similar situation but with smaller stacks. SB 149 hands played non of then in sit out: VPIP 11 PFR 3 Limp 9 and 3-bet 6

What do you guys do here? What is your calling range ?

PokerStars, Hold'em No Limit - 75/150 (15 ante) - 9 players


UTG: 2,408 (16 bb)
UTG+1: 8,947 (60 bb)
MP: 1,606 (11 bb)
MP+1: 2,199 (15 bb)
LP (Hero): 4,990 (33 bb)
CO: 4,916 (33 bb)
BU: 6,400 (43 bb)
SB: 3,331 (22 bb)
BB: 4,531 (30 bb)

Pre-Flop: (360) Hero is LP with J♦ J♠
4 players fold, Hero raises to 450, 2 players fold, SB 3-bets to 3,316 (all-in), 1 fold, Hero ?

Normally JJ is way to high in your range to fold to a rejam for 22 bigs. But those stats are pretty scary, especially if you are sure, he has not been sitting out. So you could make a big HUD-based exploit and fold here.

I would call with AA, KK, AKs in this spot. Maybe I am a bit to tight but in tournaments that are not freerolls I think it's correct decision.

In tournaments, that are not freerolls or play money games, you will hardly ever see someone doing this. Moving all-in preflop for 20 times, whats already in the pot, makes no sense with any hand. If he have aces or kings, he scares away most of his action, and if he dont have aces or kings, he completely valueown himself, when someone else does. So honestly its almost not even worth wasting brain power on a hand like this. Folding JJ was fine, and if you had decided to call, it would also be fine. Its a freeroll, so it does not really matter

 

[eetenor]

No. I think that his range is more like AA, AKs, AQs, AJs,ATs, AQo+, 88+ and maybe KQs and given that I have to call all in, I don't think that at the beginning of the tournament this is an ok call.
Also he might have a small pair and don't know how to play it after the flop.

I would call with AA, KK, AKs in this spot. Maybe I am a bit to tight but in tournaments that are not freerolls I think it's correct decision.

*in freerolls there are players who shove like this any 2 cards (I don't think this player is one of them)

Ok vs that range JJ is always a call especially in a spot where the shove is sooo large that AA KK would not normally choose that option- often players with these HUD stats shove to protect good not great hands so not AA KK so they could shove QQ 100% and AK but they do not fear to lose so they do not shove AA KK 100% they want value from those hands- Assuming that thinking we can call here and it is +EV to do so- If you use equilab vs the range you suggested even including AA KK JJ is 54% if we take out AA 56% &KK 60% &QQ 64%

Early in tournaments is when we want to use raw equity to determine our actions in unkown spots-
If we had TT we can fold more often because this type of V will shove JJ more often than QQ KK AA

 

[ratbat615]

I like 👍 the fold I think 🤔 KKs+ or AK it would be nice 👍 to see the flop but that’s way too much for pocket JJ pre. Just my opinion I am not a pro.

 

[fundiver199]

No. I think that his range is more like AA, AKs, AQs, AJs,ATs, AQo+, 88+ and maybe KQs

In a situation like this it makes no sense to try to assign the opponent, what we might call a normal logical range. The reason for that is, that his line makes sense with no hand, as I explained in my last post. So instead we need to look at the possible reasons, why he might be making this silly move, and I think, they can be boiled down to the following 3:

* He have AA or KK (most likely AA) and hope, someone will call, because its a freeroll, so he can get maximum value
* He have a hand like 88 and hate playing it postflop
* He dont have time to continue playing the tournament and instead of just sitting out, he ships it in with random cards to either get rid of his chips or maybe build such a big stack, that he can sit out and still min-cash

This mean, that if we want to convert this to a range and calculate equities, its all partial. Like maybe 20% of the time, when the population have AA, they take this line. 10% of the time, when they have KK or an 88 type of hand, they take this line. And finally 1% of the time, when they have something random, they ran out of time and do this. Depending how we think, its weighted, maybe JJ is actually a call here. But folding is still fine, because if the hand was played in a normal way, we would not stack off JJ preflop for 140BB, and we can find a better way to use almost 140BB.

 

[rastapapolos]

I remember a hand that I played recently in CC platinum freeroll, It was the 1st hand and Villain shoved UTG, it folded to me in the button and I was dealt JJ. I don't see this type of move a lot in those freerolls and villain could have 66+, AQ+ KQs so I made the call. He turned out pocket deuces 22 and the jacks held. It was a nice double up.
As it is a freeroll, for me I could make the call and take notes on villain.