$ NL HE MTT: I think AKo is a fold here ?

[ratbat615]

Game

Hold'em

Game Format

No Limit

Table Format

MTT

Freeroll

1. Freeroll

Currency

$

pokerstars, Hold'em No Limit - 125/250 (25 ante) - 9 players
Replay this hand on CardsChat

Paya_31 (UTG): 1,757 (7 bb)
silversnpp (UTG+1): 3,353 (13 bb)
InfoNAZAR (MP): 2,792 (11 bb)
UnrealStars (MP+1): 2,360 (9 bb)
LOLWhatAfake (LP): 3,420 (14 bb)
Tr4cid (CO): 4,740 (19 bb)
ger1068 (BU): 2,858 (11 bb)
ar6timchap (SB): 9,857 (39 bb)
ratbat615 (BB): 12,882 (52 bb)

Pre-Flop: (600) Hero (ratbat615) is BB with K♦ A♣
1 fold, silversnpp (UTG+1) raises to 3,328 (all-in), 2 players fold, LOLWhatAfake (LP) 3-bets to 3,395 (all-in), 3 players fold, ratbat615 (BB) calls 3,145

Flop: (10,468) J♦ 4♥ A♥ (3 players, 2 all-in)

Turn: (10,468) 5♠ (3 players, 2 all-in)

River: (10,468) J♠ (3 players, 2 all-in)

Total pot: 10,468

Showdown:
LOLWhatAfake (LP) shows 6♥ 6♦ (two pair, Jacks and Sixes)
(Equity - Pre-Flop: 45%, Flop: 13%, Turn: 5%, River: 0%)

silversnpp (UTG+1) shows 4♣ 4♦ (a full house, Fours full of Jacks)
(Equity - Pre-Flop: 17%, Flop: 83%, Turn: 95%, River: 100%)

ratbat615 (BB) shows K♦ A♣ (two pair, Aces and Jacks)
(Equity - Pre-Flop: 38%, Flop: 4%, Turn: <1%, River: 0%)

silversnpp (UTG+1) wins 10,334
ratbat615 (BB) wins 134

I picked up ⬆️ AKo in the bb with 52 bbs and I have two of the small stacks went all in with less than 15bb . You would think 🤔 that this is a standard call . But I think 💭 folding here is positive ev . Because you have two players all in and at best you would have to flip cause someone has a pair . So I think I should fold here? What do you guys think 🤔. Thank you 🙏 for your comments.

 

[Andyreas]

Well you couldn't know their hands but you actually had 38% equity, so a EV+ call here since you have to pay 13 BBs to win 27.

And if we assume a range for both players instead of their hands, something like
UTG: 44+, AJs+, KJs+, QJs, AJo+, KJo+, QJo
LP: 66+, AQs+, KQs, AQo+, KQo

You have roughly 30% equity against both of those ranges with AKo, so it's not a -EV call for sure.

Just did not work out this time. Actually it would have, if UTG did not hit his 4 and you would have added a lovely amount of chips to your stack.

 

[Kenzie 96]

Reads on the all in players might make a difference but standard call for me in this situation.

 

[fundiver199]

AKo can be a fold in this situation, if there is high ICM-pressure, because winning another 26 BB does not have twice as much value as losing 13BB. However that is assuming opponents, who jam the NASH equilibrium ranges. That was not the case here, and will rarely be the case in a freeroll, where a lot of people dont want to waste time hanging around with a short stack. LP is not supposed to overjam with 66. And if he cant fold 66, when someone is all-in ahead of him, then he is also not folding hands like AT, AJ or KQ, which you dominate.

So its simply not true, that "someone always has a pair", even though this time they both had one, and against the specific players and the player pool you made a profitable call, which just did not work out this time. Also even against NASH opponents calling is never massively negative EV, unless its a satellite bubble or something. So calling is never a real mistake and wont have a big impact on your long term results.

In Chip EV calling is clearly profitable, and when its only for 25% of your stack, its not to much of a mistake to play close to chip EV. The situation, where you absolutely must fold AK here, is, if you are also short, and its for all your chips or the majority of your chips. Then calling two all-ins with AK can be a substantial mistake. But because you had such a large stack, it was fine to do it here.

 

[eetenor]

PokerStars, Hold'em No Limit - 125/250 (25 ante) - 9 players
Replay this hand on CardsChat

Paya_31 (UTG): 1,757 (7 bb)
silversnpp (UTG+1): 3,353 (13 bb)
InfoNAZAR (MP): 2,792 (11 bb)
UnrealStars (MP+1): 2,360 (9 bb)
LOLWhatAfake (LP): 3,420 (14 bb)
Tr4cid (CO): 4,740 (19 bb)
ger1068 (BU): 2,858 (11 bb)
ar6timchap (SB): 9,857 (39 bb)
ratbat615 (BB): 12,882 (52 bb)

Pre-Flop: (600) Hero (ratbat615) is BB with K♦ A♣
1 fold, silversnpp (UTG+1) raises to 3,328 (all-in), 2 players fold, LOLWhatAfake (LP) 3-bets to 3,395 (all-in), 3 players fold, ratbat615 (BB) calls 3,145

Flop: (10,468) J♦ 4♥ A♥ (3 players, 2 all-in)

Turn: (10,468) 5♠ (3 players, 2 all-in)

River: (10,468) J♠ (3 players, 2 all-in)

Total pot: 10,468

Showdown:
LOLWhatAfake (LP) shows 6♥ 6♦ (two pair, Jacks and Sixes)
(Equity - Pre-Flop: 45%, Flop: 13%, Turn: 5%, River: 0%)

silversnpp (UTG+1) shows 4♣ 4♦ (a full house, Fours full of Jacks)
(Equity - Pre-Flop: 17%, Flop: 83%, Turn: 95%, River: 100%)

ratbat615 (BB) shows K♦ A♣ (two pair, Aces and Jacks)
(Equity - Pre-Flop: 38%, Flop: 4%, Turn: <1%, River: 0%)

silversnpp (UTG+1) wins 10,334
ratbat615 (BB) wins 134

I picked up ⬆️ AKo in the bb with 52 bbs and I have two of the small stacks went all in with less than 15bb . You would think 🤔 that this is a standard call . But I think 💭 folding here is positive ev . Because you have two players all in and at best you would have to flip cause someone has a pair . So I think I should fold here? What do you guys think 🤔. Thank you 🙏 for your comments.

Watching replayer one action at a time no results known

Call--100% of the time

You may want to reflect on why you think you should fold because of the outcome of the hand. It would seem you want to work on your mental game skills-We often make the best decision and lose. As poker players our first mental skill to acquire is to recognize this spot for what it is and not question our choices because of the outcome alone

 

[ratbat615]

Well you couldn't know their hands but you actually had 38% Equity, so a EV+ call here since you have to pay 13 BBs to win 27.

And if we assume a range for both players instead of their hands, something like
UTG: 44+, AJs+, KJs+, QJs, AJo+, KJo+, QJo
LP: 66+, AQs+, KQs, AQo+, KQo

You have roughly 30% equity against both of those ranges with AKo, so it's not a -EV call for sure.

Just did not work out this time. Actually it would have, if UTG did not hit his 4 and you would have added a lovely amount of chips to your stack.

Yep 👍 thank you 🙏 you are right.

 

[ratbat615]

AKo can be a fold in this situation, if there is high ICM-pressure, because winning another 26 BB does not have twice as much value as losing 13BB. However that is assuming opponents, who jam the NASH equilibrium ranges. That was not the case here, and will rarely be the case in a freeroll, where a lot of people dont want to waste time hanging around with a short stack. LP is not supposed to overjam with 66. And if he cant fold 66, when someone is all-in ahead of him, then he is also not folding hands like AT, AJ or KQ, which you dominate.

So its simply not true, that "someone always has a pair", even though this time they both had one, and against the specific players and the player pool you made a profitable call, which just did not work out this time. Also even against NASH opponents calling is never massively negative EV, unless its a satellite bubble or something. So calling is never a real mistake and wont have a big impact on your long term results.

In Chip EV calling is clearly profitable, and when its only for 25% of your stack, its not to much of a mistake to play close to chip EV. The situation, where you absolutely must fold AK here, is, if you are also short, and its for all your chips or the majority of your chips. Then calling two all-ins with AK can be a substantial mistake. But because you had such a large stack, it was fine to do it here.

Thank you 🙏 very helpful.

 

[ratbat615]

Watching replayer one action at a time no results known

Call--100% of the time

You may want to reflect on why you think you should fold because of the outcome of the hand. It would seem you want to work on your mental game skills-We often make the best decision and lose. As poker players our first mental skill to acquire is to recognize this spot for what it is and not question our choices because of the outcome alone

Thank you 🙏 very inspirational I made the right decision I just needed to be Assured thank you for your comment.

 

[eetenor]

Well you couldn't know their hands but you actually had 38% Equity, so a EV+ call here since you have to pay 13 BBs to win 27.

And if we assume a range for both players instead of their hands, something like
UTG: 44+, AJs+, KJs+, QJs, AJo+, KJo+, QJo
LP: 66+, AQs+, KQs, AQo+, KQo

You have roughly 30% equity against both of those ranges with AKo, so it's not a -EV call for sure.

Just did not work out this time. Actually it would have, if UTG did not hit his 4 and you would have added a lovely amount of chips to your stack.

Great job breaking down the ranges---we would also consider FGS= future games simulations--- based on the the wider ranges being played causing variance to be greater in the mid to late stages. This would increase our call frequency beyond raw equity due to the fact that we can dominate with larger stacks thus finishing at the top more frequently-

 

[ratbat615]

Great job breaking down the ranges---we would also consider FGS= future games simulations--- based on the the wider ranges being played causing variance to be greater in the mid to late stages. This would increase our call frequency beyond raw equity due to the fact that we can dominate with larger stacks thus finishing at the top more frequently-

Thank you 🙏 very helpful

 

[Poker Orifice]

AKo can be a fold in this situation, if there is high ICM-pressure, because winning another 26 BB does not have twice as much value as losing 13BB. However that is assuming opponents, who jam the NASH equilibrium ranges. That was not the case here, and will rarely be the case in a freeroll, where a lot of people dont want to waste time hanging around with a short stack.

This looks to be a CC game. I've only played a couple of them but have railed many more. This is not the case in the CC games... it's actually quite the opposite. PLayers tend to blind wayyyy down, hoping to min cash (and it's a really flat payout structure with MANY getting paid. It's not unusual for 1/2 the field to be under 10bb's before it gets in the money.

 

[Maximum]

I think this is easy call ,you play with 14bb eff and you dominate most of their hands and you are flip with the other ones .I don't think you can fold in this spot .

 

[fundiver199]

This looks to be a CC game. I've only played a couple of them but have railed many more. This is not the case in the CC games... it's actually quite the opposite. PLayers tend to blind wayyyy down, hoping to min cash (and it's a really flat payout structure with MANY getting paid. It's not unusual for 1/2 the field to be under 10bb's before it gets in the money.

That is true. But in this hand both opponents essentially had the starting stack of 3.000 chips, so the bubble was presumably still far away. And as demonstrated by the hands, they actually had, at least one of them was getting it in to wide

 

[dallam]

44 push is fine, 66 is not. To calling a 3-way having such a huge stakc difference, its really an easier one to gamble here. And if you lost you still be on 3rd place at the table, closer to the 2 bigger stacks than the other really low ones, and that matters. If you win this, you find yourself just a very clean and favourable position as a force.

 

[ratbat615]

44 push is fine, 66 is not. To calling a 3-way having such a huge stakc difference, its really an easier one to gamble here. And if you lost you still be on 3rd place at the table, closer to the 2 bigger stacks than the other really low ones, and that matters. If you win this, you find yourself just a very clean and favourable position as a force.

Thank you 🙏 you are so right. Love ❤️