Made me think all night

[i desire love]

So here it is

Was playing a 50+5 rebuy live tourny. 30 man tourny , 3 tables of 10 players, solid players, 500$ added to prize pool, and a pretty nice payout.

So nways i play pretty well for the first 3-4 hours to get top 4. First turning point of the night: 4 handed with about 100k each accept for UTG player who has 20k. Blinds 2.5k-5k and he moves in UTG. Im SB here holding K9 suit. Cutoff calls the 20k, i decide the call to try K0 the player and move up towards the payout board, so does the BB. Flops comes K 6 9. Its checked to the BB who should be smart enough to realize were trying to K0 an opponent here and we should check the hand around but instead he decides to bet.He moves in. Guy in the cutoffs gets pretty pissed and start shitting the guy for making that move. So nways he folds and the action is on me. I ask are u sure u got him beat cause im folding top pair here. He tells me hes sure he has him beat, so i fold my top pair.UTG player shows QQ , BB show A6, for a pair of sixes. I stand up and put my hand on my head, fucming idiot play, Cutoff guy gets pretty pissed too and leaves the table for 5 minutes. But nways that brought everyone to about the same stack.

The next hand, im still pretty pissed to not beeing 80$ richer ))but nways , the action is folded around to SB who limps him. I have 108 off, i check. Flop comes QJ6, he checks, i check behind. Now thw 9 falls on the turn, which gives me a straight. He checks, i bet pot hoping he takes it like a steal and Boom, he reraises me all in. Immediat call. Heshows q6, 2 pair. Cant really be happy because he still has some outs. And yes, 6 falls on the river , it fills him up. I leave the table pretty pissed and pick up my 220$. I hate poker

 

[chrismonk123]

didnt u have 2 pair in the first hand? and if so why would u fold it??

 

[Kenzie 96]

Apparently I do not understand poker etiquette.

 

[Steveg1976]

So here it is

Was playing a 50+5 rebuy live tourny. 30 man tourny , 3 tables of 10 players, solid players, 500$ added to prize pool, and a pretty nice payout.

So nways i play pretty well for the first 3-4 hours to get top 4. First turning point of the night: 4 handed with about 100k each accept for UTG player who has 20k. Blinds 2.5k-5k and he moves in UTG. Im SB here holding K9 suit. Cutoff calls the 20k, i decide the call to try K0 the player and move up towards the payout board, so does the BB. Flops comes K 6 9. Its checked to the BB who should be smart enough to realize were trying to K0 an opponent here and we should check the hand around but instead he decides to bet.He moves in. Guy in the cutoffs gets pretty pissed and start shitting the guy for making that move. So nways he folds and the action is on me. I ask are u sure u got him beat cause im folding top pair here. He tells me hes sure he has him beat, so i fold my top pair.UTG player shows QQ , BB show A6, for a pair of sixes. I stand up and put my hand on my head, fucming idiot play, Cutoff guy gets pretty pissed too and leaves the table for 5 minutes. But nways that brought everyone to about the same stack.

The next hand, im still pretty pissed to not beeing 80$ richer ))but nways , the action is folded around to SB who limps him. I have 108 off, i check. Flop comes QJ6, he checks, i check behind. Now thw 9 falls on the turn, which gives me a straight. He checks, i bet pot hoping he takes it like a steal and Boom, he reraises me all in. Immediat call. Heshows q6, 2 pair. Cant really be happy because he still has some outs. And yes, 6 falls on the river , it fills him up. I leave the table pretty pissed and pick up my 220$. I hate poker

I stopped reading after the bold because that is so blatantly collusion that I didn't want my head to explode.

 

[kushmoney]

I have to say I would not have folded that top pair. As for that next hand, things happen in poker that can't be explained. There is many times I lost a big pot because some guy/gal got lucky on the river.

 

[Mehman]

3 handed, top two pair, why are you even thinking of folding here? insta call / fistpump.

I'd find it hard to find a fold with top pair even in that position to be honest.

Also i'm with Steve that kind of talk ain't right in that situation, not fair game talking about hands while a player is all in behind, next time call then fistpump and avoid the situation .

 

[jyow]

while i don't agree with your decision to tell the player what you were laying down, i do understand your frustration as its happened to me on so many occasions. those people just don't seem to understand that the main motivation of 2 players calling is to check it down and hope to knock someone out. and what made him so sure he had the shortstack beat? there was a king on the board! no telling what you or the seemingly aggro BB would have done if the shortstack flipped over KT or something

 

[KillerBoo]

Correct me if I´m wrong but...
There´s an unspoken agreement to check it down if there´s no sidepot when trying to eliminate an all-in player.

Also, it´s against the rules to verbally agree to check it down, once the hand is started.

Now, what OP did was to ask a question if the other player was sure he had the all-in player beaten, he didnt say anything wrong I think. I would think this was to decide whether or not to call the 2nd players all-in bet on the flop. The side pot was worth a lot more than the main pot. I can´t see the collusion in that, especially since the guy he asked obviously had but one answer to give.. He couldnt really reply "No, but I hope so", and then get his (bad) bluff called, could he? OP was fishing for info to make the deciscion about the side pot, not to call to be sure to knock out the original raiser. Would you guys have reacted and yelled "COLLUUUUUUSION" if instead, OP had said: "I think I have you beaten.. I have top pair. Do you want me to call you" Or if he "asked" that same question with a long long stare down? In this case, the call or no call doesnt really affect the betting anymore, since OP is the only one left to act in this pot. I react more to the fact that a guy that was OUT of the pot, started talking about it.
Then again, I could be wrong since I mostly play live games in "non-official surroundings" without proper tourney managers. (Not often in casinos)

By the way, you had 2 pairs, and the other guy moves all in. What were you thinking, not calling? If he had a monster, wouldnt he just have bet a little bit, to create a side pot for later attacking? Instacall in my book. What more can you hope for, flopping 2 pairs?

 

[Steveg1976]

Discussing the hand to make sure the all in player is eliminated is collusion no matter how you want to play with semantics. If the hand was heads up the situation changes (I am not sure about that rule actually) but still horrible in my opinion.

 

[robwhufc]

1st hand, Jesus!

a) you call a 5th of your stack with K9
b) you think checking it down is the only option, when there is 80K in the pot, and 3 players have 80K behind each.
c) you openly colluded with an opponent.
d) you fold top pair - (you cant have folded 2 pair, surely?).

2nd hand, unlucky, but your opponent was surely entitled to think his 2 pair was good.

 

[OzExorcist]

Pretty much all been said above.

First hand is pretty much a snapcall, and for crying out loud stop openly colluding.

 

[Swodaems]

Never trust what people tell you about their hands. They are usually flat out lying to you. This is because they get pot commited when they don't have to be and figure the only way they can win is by bluffing their way to victory. I can count on the thumbs of one hand the number of times I have had seen a player be honest about their cards. (This one guy told me he had a gut shot straight draw when I had 2 pair. "Four outs for me." I called. He was telling the truth. He made his draw and said sorry afterwards.)

 

[i desire love]

No but my point is, there is absolutly no point of pushing all in. Theres no side pot yet, why would u risk your tourney on A6 flopping bottom pair? So i tough he had to be really strong to lay my hand down.

 

[i desire love]

I mean its a standard play to check around when you do have an all in player... The guy risked his whole tourney on a bluff which brought him 0 chips.....

 

[Jayson745]

I wouldn't say its standard to check it down and try to knock him out. It happens alot, especially if everyone that still has chips to bet have speculative hands. I'm going for the win every time, and that means hammering top 2 pair when the pot is as big as my stack. Would have been a quick tripple up and knock 2 people out. Giving me a good chance at taking first.

The only think beating you is a set of 6s, unless he happens to have the last 2 Ks or 9s. I dont get what you were thinking he had that would make you fold.

 

[KillerBoo]

I mean its a standard play to check around when you do have an all in player... The guy risked his whole tourney on a bluff which brought him 0 chips.....

True, but how in Gods name can you fold 2 pairs? Do you REALLY think he would push with anything better than your hand? If indeed he wanted the side pot that he creates, wouldnt he then have wanted something it is so to say?
He was just dumb enough to hope his 6:es was good enough to take it home, without risking to have to give you a larger stack than initially. I agree it was a dumb thing to do, but even dumber I think, is to lay down 2 pairs at this point. Werent you there to win? Or just there to climb one more step up the ladder of the prize pool. Nah, you brought it on yourself, and even though it might not be DIRECTLY against the rules to reason the way you did, trying to find out if you should call, you acted doubtfully and then didnt even act upon the tells given to you...

 

[robwhufc]

No but my point is, there is absolutly no point of pushing all in. Theres no side pot yet, why would u risk your tourney on A6 flopping bottom pair? So i tough he had to be really strong to lay my hand down.

So are you saying you actually DID lay down top 2 pair 4 handed? I assumed that was a typo.

 

[viking999]

I mean its a standard play to check around when you do have an all in player... The guy risked his whole tourney on a bluff which brought him 0 chips.....

It's not standard to check it down when you are confident you have the best hand but it's vulnerable to draws. That's not the case here, but you shouldn't assume he has the nuts just because he bet. Betting with top pair is pretty standard here, so it's an insta-call with two pair.

 

[califantasy]

I ask are u sure u got him beat cause im folding top pair here. He tells me hes sure he has him beat, so i fold my top pair...

You do realize collusion is unethical right?

6 falls on the river , it fills him up. I leave the table pretty pissed

This seems like kharma.

 

[califantasy]

UTG player who has 20k. Blinds 2.5k-5k and he moves in UTG. Im SB here holding K9 suit. Cutoff calls the 20k, i decide the call

Just one more question...how did you even make it into the money?

You overcalled a raise and a call for 8 times what you had invested in the pot, with worst position at the table and a K9 in your hand.

 

[i desire love]

Just one more question...how did you even make it into the money?

You overcalled a raise and a call for 8 times what you had invested in the pot, with worst position at the table and a K9 in your hand.

Were trying to get 3 handed here... Everyone will call the UTG all in who can make this move with A LARGE VARIETY OF HANDS. What you guys don't understand, its stupid to make a move like that when theres no side pot to be won right. So i made up my mind and decide to laydown a big hand , which revealed to be the best hand but Its cause the guy was an idiot. I mean he played about 4 hands at the FT and then he pushes all-in, but theres no side pot the win. I couldnt put him on A6 here. How did i make it into the money? I mean... your questionning whole tournament play cauz i layd down 2 pair in a pretty awkward situation?

 

[Dwilius]

What you guys don't understand, its stupid to make a move like that when theres no side pot to be won right.

I mean... your questionning whole tournament play cauz i layd down 2 pair in a pretty awkward situation?

Everyone understands eliminating a player and that there's no sidepot. Colluding is much worse.

...and it wasn't a typo...you really think your opponent is flatpushing a stronger hand than top 2 pair, just because someone's allin

 

[i desire love]

Everyone understands eliminating a player and that there's no sidepot. Colluding is much worse.

...and it wasn't a typo...you really think your opponent is flatpushing a stronger hand than top 2 pair, just because someone's allin

Why would he do it then? Hoping i fold so he can win the 0$ side pot? I mean i know its wasnt the good move, but you got to laydown big hands sometimes. Especially in that situation... if I hadnt told you the results of the hand, you would all have considered a fold here.

 

[robwhufc]

Were trying to get 3 handed here...

I'm afraid you should have been looking to win the tournament at that stage, not finish 3rd.

 

[Leo 50]

I stopped reading after the bold because that is so blatantly collusion that I didn't want my head to explode.

I have to agree, why would you even ask the other guy let alone accept his answer as truth. We're Poker Players we get paid to Lie!!!!!