Live game, AA

[OzExorcist]

From a live game I played last night:

It's a three-table tournament, $15 buy in, $200 prize for the winner. About an hour in, blinds at 500 / 1000. I've got a stack of about 25,000, table average is maybe 30-35K, and I get dealt AcAh in the cutoff.

There's a couple of limpers before me (seven people at the table, at this stage). I raised to 2000, the button, big blind and both limpers call.

Why the minraise? I know, it's horrible. Problem is, I play with these people a fair bit and preflop they're calling stations unless the bet is all-in. I'm not in the red zone, this is maybe the second good hand I've had all night, and I want value. I figure I'm going to the flop with at least two or three opponents no matter how much I bet, so I'll just let it be known that I'm raising and give myself and escape plan if it all goes pear shaped.

So - there's 10,500 in the pot and the flop comes:

5h 3h 9h

Not the greatest flop, but I've got the Ah and it checks around to me. I bet 5000, the button thinks for a good while then calls. The other three fold.

I'm thinking this is OK, the hesitation says to me he doesn't have the flush, maybe he's got a pair and he's drawing. The odds for drawing aren't good... but I'd be surprised if that occured to him. He had maybe a 40,000 stack to start the hand. He's not a complete calling station, but he's probably got a tendency for calling a more than he should - so the call didn't worry me too much.

Pot's at 20,500. The turn:

5h 3h 9h - 4s

I figure if he's drawing, this doesn't help - good chance I'm still ahead and have the better draw to boot. I bet 10,000, he thinks again for a moment and calls.

The river:

5h 3h 9h 4s - 6d

Ouch. I've missed my draw, and there's an open-ended straight on the board. I've got about 8000 left behind, I don't think he's going away no matter what I bet, and I have this nasty feeling his range includes hanging onto a 7 kicker the whole way.

I check, he thinks for just a second then goes all in. Has me well and truly covered.

Thoughts? I'm expecting some stick for the pre-flop minraise

 

[Effexor]

Why the minraise? I know, it's horrible. Problem is, I play with these people a fair bit and preflop they're calling stations unless the bet is all-in. I'm not in the red zone, this is maybe the second good hand I've had all night, and I want value. I figure I'm going to the flop with at least two or three opponents no matter how much I bet, so I'll just let it be known that I'm raising and give myself and escape plan if it all goes pear shaped.

You realize you contradict yourself here. If they are calling stations, thats even more of a reason to raise more PF. Lets say you raise to 5,000 and get 2 callers. That puts the pot at over 16,000 instead of the 10k it ended up, and over 20,000 if you get 3 callers. Believe me, after the last month I had, I understand how much it sucks to have calling stations hit their 2 or 3 outers on the river and how that can make you timid. Making people pay for their draws with incorrect odds is very important and in the long run is what wins you money.

How I would have played it:
Raise to 5k PF
Push on that flop. You most likely would have the best hand and even if someone hit a flush or set you have lots of clean outs.

Another issue was the bet sizes. Why not bet the pot on the flop? and, Why only bet 10k on the turn? At this point you have 17,000 of your 25,000 chips in the middle. Why would you leave yourself 8k behind?

 

[OzExorcist]

Good points - I guess the thought against raising more pre-flop was that I'm getting multiple callers either way: build things too high early, and there'll be too much in the pot for anyone to fold after the flop, and if the flop doesn't go my way, I've invested about 20% of my stack in a hand I might have to get away from.

I'm not saying it was sound logic, but that's what I was thinking

The flop bet of only around half the pot was more about finding out where I was at - there were three hearts on the board, guess I was scared of the made flush.

Appreciate the advice, bigger preflop raise and a shove on the flop would probably have been a more sound play.

 

[ChuckTs]

What effexor said. If we've got calling stations all around, then minraising with AA is the worst thing we can do. I literally cringed when I read that . These are the players that get labeled as 'fish', and good players take advantage of them by getting full value from their monster hands (read: AA ). Against these types of players we should be getting as much money in the middle as possible here to make them pay to outdraw us.

With a couple limpers, definitely raise more - probably 5+BBs and see where it takes you. You'll most likely have a pot big enough to shove or bet most of your stack on the flop with, and with this flop I'm happy to get my stack in the middle.

Sorry to basically repeat what Effexor said, but he's very right. Took the words right from my mouf.

 

[OzExorcist]

Thanks guys.

I ended up folding, thinking he's probably got the straight, but even if it's only two pair I still can't beat it. He showed 97o for the straight on the river, the table oohed and aahed. No flush draw, just calling the whole way along with top pair weak kicker on the flop and an inside straight on the turn.

Can see how a different betting pattern would have avoided having to make a hard decision in the first place though - I honestly don't know if he would've folded or not if I had've raised more pre-flop then shoved the flop... I'll try it next time and see what happens though. Cheers