Late in MTT - JJ in BB vs Tight player reraise in SB

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cparker

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First hand history post - let me know if I need a better title, or should choose better hands to post or whatnot.

Took a few gambles and picked up a few pots from short stacks desperate to double up and had 29k with 54 players left and 27 ITM. Avergae stack was about 15k at this point and blinds 1200.

With 29k and the avg stack 15k I think I could have folded to the money. But emk had stolen 3 out of the 4 last blinds. On his last blind steal he showed AA. So I was looking for a spot to reraise him and catch him stealing.

Mistmayor is a very tight player, but I figured he was tired of emk stealing his pots. I guess I was wrong :).

Any comments suggestions on the play and also on how to make a better post are appreciated.

The "hero" is ssalsa.

PokerStars Game #17437869821: Tournament #86823311, $1.00+$0.10 Hold'em No Limit - Level XII (600/1200) - 2008/05/14 - 23:25:11 (ET)
Table '86823311 19' 9-max Seat #7 is the button
Seat 1: phatcatman21 (24854 in chips)
Seat 2: Palsh (25760 in chips)
Seat 3: Angurank (21120 in chips)
Seat 4: randoman54 (41582 in chips)
Seat 5: Villadiego (9860 in chips)
Seat 6: PokerStormL (21665 in chips)
Seat 7: emk4976 (8843 in chips)
Seat 8: MisterMayor (17725 in chips)
Seat 9: ssalsa (29292 in chips)
phatcatman21: posts the ante 125
Palsh: posts the ante 125
Angurank: posts the ante 125
randoman54: posts the ante 125
Villadiego: posts the ante 125
PokerStormL: posts the ante 125
emk4976: posts the ante 125
MisterMayor: posts the ante 125
ssalsa: posts the ante 125
MisterMayor: posts small blind 600
ssalsa: posts big blind 1200
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to ssalsa [Jc Js]
phatcatman21: folds
Palsh: folds
Angurank: folds
randoman54: calls 1200
emk4976 said, "gg gl all"
Villadiego: folds
PokerStormL: folds
Villadiego said, "ty u2"
emk4976: raises 7518 to 8718 and is all-in
MisterMayor: calls 8118
ssalsa: raises 7518 to 16236
randoman54: folds
MisterMayor: raises 1364 to 17600 and is all-in
ssalsa: calls 1364
emk4976 said, "wow"
*** FLOP *** [3s Th 8s]
Villadiego said, "wow"
*** TURN *** [3s Th 8s] [7s]
*** RIVER *** [3s Th 8s 7s] [2d]
*** SHOW DOWN ***
MisterMayor: shows [As Ac] (a pair of Aces)
ssalsa: shows [Jc Js] (a pair of Jacks)
MisterMayor collected 17764 from side pot
emk4976: shows [Ad Ah] (a pair of Aces)
randoman54 said, "can't believe how many chips at this table"
emk4976 said, "yesssssss"
MisterMayor collected 14240 from main pot
emk4976 collected 14239 from main pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 46243 Main pot 28479. Side pot 17764. | Rake 0
Board [3s Th 8s 7s 2d]
Seat 1: phatcatman21 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 2: Palsh folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 3: Angurank folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 4: randoman54 folded before Flop
Seat 5: Villadiego folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 6: PokerStormL folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 7: emk4976 (button) showed [Ad Ah] and won (14239) with a pair of Aces
Seat 8: MisterMayor (small blind) showed [As Ac] and won (32004) with a pair of Aces
Seat 9: ssalsa (big blind) showed [Jc Js] and lost with a pair of Jacks
 
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switch0723

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fold jacks to all that action, they don't play well 3 handed (which may turn into 4 handed if initial raiser calls), if emk was only person in the hand, then id call

Also if emk had been stealing yet showed aces, why do you want to find a spot to re raise him, maybe he has the goods all the time, just be patient. Did he by any chance have a railbird avatar? If he did then he may well be the guy who plays in cc buy in events. Hes a pretty tight player to be fair, but you obviously wouldn't know that at the time of this hand.
 
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cparker

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I was going by the reasoning that if someone only occasionally shows a strong hand after stealing, that means all other steals were garbage.

Or maybe i was falling into the gambler's fallacy that if he had AA last hand, he couldn't possibly have it this hand?

Yes, emk is a railbird - first time playing against him.
 
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switch0723

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well he may very well have been raising with ace,rag type hands, so legitamate raising hands, but showed the aces to show he is getting the goods to raise with.

Ive played with him a few times, and as i said, if he is only one in the hand i would have called since he could be doing that with any pp and several a,x hands, its mister mayors cold call that would worry me more
 
KenFischer

KenFischer

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With 29k and the avg stack 15k I think I could have folded to the money. But emk had stolen 3 out of the 4 last blinds. On his last blind steal he showed AA. So I was looking for a spot to reraise him and catch him stealing.

He was already all-in, if he just made a standard raise, you might get him to fold by reraising, but not here. Mistmayor has half of his stack in the middle and isn't likely to fold here no matter what he is holding. I could live with a flat-call here (and hope that the other player is willing to check down the hand) but I would probably fold to a bet on the flop if I didn't catch a set.

Mistmayor is a very tight player, but I figured he was tired of emk stealing his pots. I guess I was wrong :).

Most tight players won't flat-call here when someone is left to act behind them. Their call generally means that they either want you to stay in the hand or they want you to read them as weak.

The "hero" is ssalsa.

Yep - we can tell that because we see what your hole cards are - you don't need to state it. :)

emk4976 said, "gg gl all"
emk4976: raises 7518 to 8718 and is all-in

Beware the speech. When someone takes the time to make a speech before they make a move, especially one that implies they will be leaving, it is a tell for a strong hand. Obviously they can play this in reverse, but most times I see this done, they have a monster.

The only other thing I would add is you can run your hand history through Poker Hand History Converter Tool to convert it into a post-friendly format. You should also hide the results at first if you want unbiased feedback :)
 
Effexor

Effexor

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I think the play is fine, here's why. It's all based on stack sizes.

There are 3 possible outcomes:

(1) You win and almost triple up.
(2) emk wins but you beat the other guy, you still come out ahead.
(3) Mist wins and you get knocked out.

If emk had more chips and there wasn't a side pot I'd fold to that action, but as it was I think it was a good move. JJ doesn't like multi way pots, but the reality here was that it wasn't really a multi way pot.
 
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switch0723

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^^^ But what hands does mist cold call a 3 bet push with? I don't think they would do that with less than jacks
 
Jack Daniels

Jack Daniels

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First hand history post - let me know if I need a better title, or should choose better hands to post or whatnot.
Since you asked, I'd make two suggestions:
1) Post these hands in the Tournament Hand Analysis Forum to maximize responses...I'm moving this one there for you.
2) A more descriptive name of the hand is more help than everyone using "should I have called" or "what do I do" as their thread titles. Take a look at titles by tenbob, ChuckTs, and others that actually tell you what a hand will sort of look like before you even open the link. So for this thread, something like "Late in MTT - JJ in BB vs Tight player reraise in SB". It's not very long and conveys a lot about the situation they will be seeing. This type of title is the most courteous that you can provide.
 
S93

S93

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Since you asked, I'd make two suggestions:
1) Post these hands in the Tournament Hand Analysis Forum to maximize responses...I'm moving this one there for you.
2) A more descriptive name of the hand is more help than everyone using "should I have called" or "what do I do" as their thread titles. Take a look at titles by tenbob, ChuckTs, and others that actually tell you what a hand will sort of look like before you even open the link. So for this thread, something like "Late in MTT - JJ in BB vs Tight player reraise in SB". It's not very long and conveys a lot about the situation they will be seeing. This type of title is the most courteous that you can provide.
^^^ and maby post the hand street by street for a better analysis.
Other then that the hand played out ok, i might consider folding here but because of the sitepot u only really need to beat one of them so a call is justyfied
 
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