KK in a hard situation, early in tourney

[bob_tiger]

full tilt poker Game #7100834270: $65,000 Guarantee (51456312), Table 20 - 10/20 - No Limit Hold'em - 20:05:12 ET - 2008/07/05
Seat 1: Marvin83 (2,990)
Seat 2: bob_tiger (2,970)
Seat 3: DamnDevistatesh (3,140)
Seat 4: DonPasta (2,930)
Seat 5: rajifu (2,940)
Seat 6: parwhitla (3,000)
Seat 7: GBecks (3,000)
Seat 8: Zappabertie (2,910)
Seat 9: keizer88 (3,120)
rajifu posts the small blind of 10
parwhitla posts the big blind of 20
The button is in seat #4
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to bob_tiger [Kc Kd]
GBecks raises to 60
Zappabertie folds
keizer88 calls 60
Marvin83 folds
bob_tiger has 15 seconds left to act
bob_tiger has requested TIME
bob_tiger raises to 240
DamnDevistatesh calls 240
DonPasta folds
rajifu folds
parwhitla folds
GBecks has 15 seconds left to act
GBecks calls 180
keizer88 calls 180
*** FLOP *** [9d Qs Qd]
GBecks checks
keizer88 checks
bob_tiger checks
DamnDevistatesh checks
*** TURN *** [9d Qs Qd] [3c]
GBecks checks
keizer88 checks
bob_tiger bets 330
DamnDevistatesh raises to 660
GBecks folds
keizer88 folds
bob_tiger calls 330
*** RIVER *** [9d Qs Qd 3c] [Jc]
bob_tiger checks
DamnDevistatesh bets 2,240, and is all in
bob_tiger has 15 seconds left to act
bob_tiger has requested TIME

What can we possibly put him on here, this is 5th hand so far he played 3 hands out of 5, no showdowns so I got no info on him.

 

[pokertime911]

Thats a tough situation I think I would call because I feel like he is bluffing on the river but who knows. Also I play a lot at full tilt if you want to play any games just pm me or search mumbles99

 

[shinedown.45]

still early in the tourney and based on preflop action and re-raise on turn by villian I would fold and wait for a better spot.
IMO, villian may be holding AQ.

 

[BillyTheBull]

You really can't reliably put him on anything there, because you made several crucial mistakes during this hand:

1. You didn't re-raise enough PF. Especially with the guy to your left cold-calling, both the original raiser and caller get the right odds to see a flop with a HUGE range of hands there.
2. Why in the world would you check the flop there? There are both a flush draw and a straight draw on the board, plus the two queens are scary, but you are likely to have the best hand right now, and you do have potential re-draws; you ABSOLUTELY need to put in a sizeable bet there (min 2/3 pot) to see where you are in the hand. You may well win a nice pot right there; if you get re-raised AI, then you have a decision to make, and if you get just a call, then your flop-bet might buy you a free card on the turn, depending on what comes next, but by checking you accomplish nothing whatsoever and, worse, you lose control of the pot.
3. What were you trying to do on the turn? Imho, your turn bet is completely HORRIBLE. You're betting 330 into a pot of 990, with three players behind you -- even with just one card left to come, that means your opponents are getting at least 4-1 to call; with a flush draw and a paired board, once again those odds are good enough to call with a huge range of hands, and your bet will not help you define anyone's hand, nor get rid of any decent draws out there.

The bottom line is that you backed yourself into a corner here, and you pretty much have no-one else to blame but yourself. In the end, I think that our villain probably holds a Q, either suited, connected, or both (or even semi-connected . . . AQ, QT, Q9, Q8), all of which would have been excellent hands with which to check the flop and hope that someone would take a stab at it on the turn, like you did. His min-raise on the turn would further support a hand like that (although Q9 would almost certainly flat-call), because he would want to make it cheap enough for at least you to stay in, but maybe not everyone, as he may be afraid of the flush draw.

Forgive me if my criticism sounds a bit harsh here, but I don't believe in beating around the bush; please know that everything is meant to be constructive and not in any way personal, and, of course, it's just my humble opinion, with which you or anyone else is free to disagree, as always! Let us know what happened, ok?!

 

[bob_tiger]

You really can't reliably put him on anything there, because you made several crucial mistakes during this hand:

1. You didn't re-raise enough PF. Especially with the guy to your left cold-calling, both the original raiser and caller get the right odds to see a flop with a HUGE range of hands there.
2. Why in the world would you check the flop there? There are both a flush draw and a straight draw on the board, plus the two queens are scary, but you are likely to have the best hand right now, and you do have potential re-draws; you ABSOLUTELY need to put in a sizeable bet there (min 2/3 pot) to see where you are in the hand. You may well win a nice pot right there; if you get re-raised AI, then you have a decision to make, and if you get just a call, then your flop-bet might buy you a free card on the turn, depending on what comes next, but by checking you accomplish nothing whatsoever and, worse, you lose control of the pot.
3. What were you trying to do on the turn? Imho, your turn bet is completely HORRIBLE. You're betting 330 into a pot of 990, with three players behind you -- even with just one card left to come, that means your opponents are getting at least 4-1 to call; with a flush draw and a paired board, once again those odds are good enough to call with a huge range of hands, and your bet will not help you define anyone's hand, nor get rid of any decent draws out there.

The bottom line is that you backed yourself into a corner here, and you pretty much have no-one else to blame but yourself. In the end, I think that our villain probably holds a Q, either suited, connected, or both (or even semi-connected . . . AQ, QT, Q9, Q8), all of which would have been excellent hands with which to check the flop and hope that someone would take a stab at it on the turn, like you did. His min-raise on the turn would further support a hand like that (although Q9 would almost certainly flat-call), because he would want to make it cheap enough for at least you to stay in, but maybe not everyone, as he may be afraid of the flush draw.

Forgive me if my criticism sounds a bit harsh here, but I don't believe in beating around the bush; please know that everything is meant to be constructive and not in any way personal, and, of course, it's just my humble opinion, with which you or anyone else is free to disagree, as always! Let us know what happened, ok?!

Ok well thank you for the honesty and I dont think its harsh or personal, first of my raise was so small because these players I have played with before so I don't mind my raise tbh maybe I should have made it to 300ish or more but personally I don't mind the raise.
Now on the flop is where my mistake is, usually I always bet this but for some weird reason I checked, and turn was just weak I agree, once again I have no idea why I bet 330 and then on the river I checked and folded to his all in pretty obvious. My main mistake is not betting the flop, and basically I should of just bet the flop or just let this hand go. Like I said early on its a bit hard since these guys just love to get tricky and vs a loose player its hard to put him on a hand.
I ended up losing the tourney after my two pair lost to a str8

 

[viking999]

Well I hope you didn't call the turn and then fold the river. That doesn't make any sense. The jack doesn't complete any remotely raiseworthy hand. I would think the only lines that make sense are calling turn and river or just folding turn.

I like folding turn better. I don't see the villain checking in position on the flop and then bluff or weak value min-raising on the blank turn. He was in a perfect spot to bet for bluff, value, or feeler on the flop. Maybe he floated you, but to min-raise after floating is pretty strange. It really looks like a monster or a monster. Take your pick.

And yeah, there were other problems already mentioned that I think were well covered.

 

[Jurn8]

You really can't reliably put him on anything there, because you made several crucial mistakes during this hand:

1. You didn't re-raise enough PF. Especially with the guy to your left cold-calling, both the original raiser and caller get the right odds to see a flop with a HUGE range of hands there.

personally i think he raised high enough i think 12X BB is a massive raise ! any higher and you risk the chance of nobody calling and everybody folding because its that early on in the tournament and you wana get some action with KK early on.

1. Why in the world would you check the flop there? There are both a flush draw and a straight draw on the board, plus the two queens are scary, but you are likely to have the best hand right now, and you do have potential re-draws; you ABSOLUTELY need to put in a sizeable bet there (min 2/3 pot) to see where you are in the hand. You may well win a nice pot right there; if you get re-raised AI, then you have a decision to make, and if you get just a call, then your flop-bet might buy you a free card on the turn, depending on what comes next, but by checking you accomplish nothing whatsoever and, worse, you lose control of the pot.

AQ that would immediately be the best hand and judging from the callers pre flop one of them must have a half decent hand unless their complete donks. By putting a 2/3 bet out at the pot your just potentially walking into the trap of slow play if he wants to hence the two flat calls and then the re raise on the river.

In my opinion your going to be playing this hand far too aggressive for when you dont have the best hand especially that early on in the tourney. I realise that you could have put say a 1/2 or 3/4 pot to get some clue of how your hands doing against the board but with the flat calling you have to bare in mind the slow play whihc is what i think he was doing because of the betting pattern with him on AQ,KQ,JQ something like that.

 

[KerouacsDog]

only advice I can offer to you bob, is that, to date, no tournament has ever been won at the beginning, and every tournament has been won at the end.
Easy fold for me, wait for a better spot, you're an A game player, this guy looks D game.

 

[blankoblanco]

Well I hope you didn't call the turn and then fold the river. That doesn't make any sense. The jack doesn't complete any remotely raiseworthy hand. I would think the only lines that make sense are calling turn and river or just folding turn.

this isn't necessarily true at all because his turn-bluffing range is likely wider than his turn+river-bluffing range. it's also possible for a (probably bad) player to do this on the turn with a 9 to "see where he is at," or some other hand hoping to "slow you down" and get a cheap showdown. of course, as soon as he shoves the river it becomes pretty clear that wasn't the case. basically, even though no draws complete, his action on the river further defines and changes his range. plus it's worth some small extra amount of equity to us on the turn that we'll still hit a K 5% of the time on the river

definitely bet flop. as played, maybe a little more on turn, and river looks good. i'd be shocked if he has a Q or boat any less than 75% of the time once he shoves the river

 

[bob_tiger]

You know what, I thought about this hand again and I think he had 9s or Q9 from the way he played it, my reasoning is after looking at the hand, he was last to act in position on the flop, if he had AQ, I would think he bets that flop
since the pot is 960 if I remember correctly, instead he checks, waiting for one of us to bet on the turn. On the turn when he min raised he must of put me on AQ/QK or something like that and thought I would shove into his already made full house and I would only have 3 outs so maybe thats the case, and on river he shoves hoping I have that Q or if i was chasing a flush and hit it. I'm pretty sure 99 would do something like this.
And for my play, I know I should of just checked the flop, check the turn and fold if he bet the turn, which he would of most likely bet that turn I think, if not just try to see a cheap showdown on river.