Are we too deep to 3bet shove here ?


Winning Poker, Hold'em No Limit - 1,200/2,400 (300 ante) - 7 players
Replay this hand on CardsChat

UTG: 117,128 (49 bb)
MP: 57,018 (24 bb)
MP+1: 22,884 (10 bb)
CO: 21,132 (9 bb)
BU: 43,955 (18 bb)
SB: 54,347 (23 bb)
BB (Hero): 63,660 (27 bb)

Pre-Flop: (5,700) Hero is BB with J♠ J♥
1 fold, MP raises to 4,800, 4 players fold, Hero 3-bets to 63,360 (all-in), MP calls 51,918 (all-in)

Flop: (116,736) 6♣ 4♥ 5♠ (2 players, 2 all-in)

Turn: (116,736) 2♥ (2 players, 2 all-in)

River: (116,736) A♠ (2 players, 2 all-in)

Total pot: 116,736

Spoiler alert!

Click to Reveal!

Showdown:
BB (Hero) shows J♠ J♥ (a pair of Jacks)
(Equity - Pre-Flop: 19%, Flop: 11%, Turn: 9%, River: 0%)

MP shows A♥ A♣ (three of a kind, Aces)
(Equity - Pre-Flop: 81%, Flop: 89%, Turn: 91%, River: 100%)

MP wins 116,736

24 bbs effective. 3bet shoving is fine.

Originally Posted by ohshootmybad

24 bbs effective. 3bet shoving is fine.

Is there a scenario where we'd 3bet like 3x and see a flop?

Definitely not too deep. At 24BBs effective, you can't 3-bet effectively without pot committing yourself. Your call range in this spot should be very wide for all the equity you're getting, while your push range should be something like 99+, suited broadways and AQo.

This might change if you're affected by ICM, but even in quite extreme cases, JJ is definitely a push.

yes i am shoving not 3 betting, shove uses max fold equity so sometimes you take the pot there and then.

Maybe 3x AA if you want action, although you might want to play AA and JJ the same if you have observant opponents.

The jam in this situation is correct. Look at the alternatives and see if we like any of them.

1. Fold pre flop. Ludicrous idea unless you are Mike Postle and know the villain has Aces here. Folding Jacks here just really isnt an option.


2. Call behind. This would leave us with a hand that usually will face an overcard flop on the board and puts us in a tough spot since leading is awkward and if we do not do that then we are facing a C bet most likely that we never really know we are ahead or behind. We would probably have to call that C bet which would commit us. If two overcards flop we can safely fold but that is a very passive line.

3. 3 bet to 3x or 4x. Both of these raise amounts leave us in a position where we have to C bet the flop no matter what comes out since if overcard or overcards come down we need to rep them. Otherwise we are checking here which looks pretty weak and we will usually get outplayed. C betting would really pot commit us with the raise and bet on the flop.

With 15-20 bigs I would also shove , with better pot odds I might shove IP for more bigs than just 20 . big blinds . Or else call , and see a flop , especially on the BB , a 3bet by me and a call by him would put me in awkward position , probably losing not only one but 7-8 more blinds , and with 27 , maybe a blind increase , that I would not like As far as I have seen 30 blinds is a lot of blinds to shove online without a very good hand , I wouldn\t choose JJ with 27 blinds oop as a very good hand for my games

Too shallow to 3bet and try to navigate post flop - never 3betting with intention to fold - this is a super standard rejam preflop for 25BB - just a cooler. Nothing we can do. Standard spot, the hand plays itself.

I think, its kind of borderline, when he only mini-raise. But I am never 3-betting here to either fold to a jam or create a just over 1 SPR pot, where I am OOP with a hand like JJ. So the only other option is to just call. On this runout the chips would have gone in post anyway though, so in that sense this is just a standard cooler.

I would probably 3bet 12,000. This gives him a chance to call, raise, or fold. It also allows you to narrow his range, while still holding 20BB. A quick all in raise from villain might give us pause. Evaluate where we are in the tournament, and are we wanting to risk it all on this pair?

That said, JJ on a 7 handed table is usually good enough to go (or call) all in.