stormswa
Legend
Silver Level
bubbasbestbabe
Suckout Queen
Silver Level
Your position and your hand made this a dificult hand to play. Mid pairs in that position are good for set mining only at that time of the game. You could have seen the flop a lot cheaper if this was your intention. If you were trying to steal some blinds then that raise wasn't enough. You let yourself get in a pickle here and you want to know would it be worth taking the chance to chase and maybe hit thereby getting yourself out of this predicament. Fold, and learn a lesson here about how, where, and when to play mid PP.
stormswa
Legend
Silver Level
but you cant calculate odds knowing what he has, you just cant. so your 47% just dosent work.
I
ilikadamoney
Enthusiast
Silver Level
i say this in a non insulting way, do you not understand that if i have to put in 2 chips with kk into a 500 chip pot where he shows aa, you put in the chip because even though you wont win the hand most of the time, when you do you will profit in the long run because of the favorable odds, even though you will be out more times than not.
p.s. this is an obvious exaggeration don't comment on that part
I
ilikadamoney
Enthusiast
Silver Level
on this hand i decided to follow my reads 100%. weather he had aa or ak w/ no heart it was the same hand to me and thats what i figured from. if he had aa with a heart or something that was not a decision problem, it was that my read was way off and then i would work on my reading not my decision making
I
ilikadamoney
Enthusiast
Silver Level
thats why i'm here
rob5775
Legend
Silver Level
This was a great thread for the dialogue (hey, no arguing!) going on. But I think Chuck summed it up nicely right here....
Can't say it any better, though Brians posts were pretty good too.
Can't say it any better, though Brians posts were pretty good too.
B
broncos53
Rock Star
Silver Level
ok just to verify you say you have NO READS on this guy before this hand.....so my question would be how in the world would you think he doesnt have a heart either way you are dominated and i dont think he would fold either way i would have folded preflop when he reraised you but that is just me.
I
ilikadamoney
Enthusiast
Silver Level
it was a read based on experience playing the avg player in one of these tourneys. and this isnt about the pf decision
Dorkus Malorkus
HELLO INTERNET
Silver Level
You have a problem that a lot of people seem to be having recently.
Stop trying to put people on one hand and one hand only
You operate using ranges of hands - why are you so convinced he has "AA with no heart" as opposed to AK/KK/AhQh/AA with a heart, for example?
There are precious few situations where you can put an opponent on one hand and one hand solidly, and this is not one of them.
J
joeeagles
Legend
Silver Level
I think this hand started wrong with the amount of PF raise. With blinds at 100/200 there's no reason to raise 4 BB's. This I believe is one of the fundamental mistakes many players make, you shouldn't risk more than what is needed to accomplish something. I know its only 200 more but every chip counts, and even if table is only 7-handed you're UTG, and in that position one must always consider the chance of getting called or reraised, like happened here.
You started this thread saying you have no read on this guy, so when you get reraised another 1k, this is what you need to consider:
1) you have 88 OOP
2) you no longer have odds to play for set value as pointed out by Stormswa
3) you're at best a coinflip with a chance you're way behind
Because of all this I think the best action is fold PF to the reraise, it's very difficult to play 88, particularly OOP against an unknown player. Next time only raise to 600.
About your read, I don't know how you can pinpoint him on not having a heart so early in the hand. I can understand you putting him on a small range because of his reraise (and BTW, you're now way behind any possible hand of this small range), but how can you be so sure he doesn't have a heart? You're whole reasoning about him slowplaying if he has a big heart makes no sense. His flop bet is consistent with a hand like AA or AK with or without hearts, there is no way you can be sure. If stacks were deeper you "could" try a shove to get him to fold on a such a board, but you already know its not going to work here. As played this is a clear fold, the minimum hand in his range is AK so you're way behind, there is a small chance he has AQ but its too risky and so is the whole "he doesn't have a big heart" line of thinking. Shoving here is reckless, if you did and won the hand don't be results oriented about it, because you won on a bad play.
You started this thread saying you have no read on this guy, so when you get reraised another 1k, this is what you need to consider:
1) you have 88 OOP
2) you no longer have odds to play for set value as pointed out by Stormswa
3) you're at best a coinflip with a chance you're way behind
Because of all this I think the best action is fold PF to the reraise, it's very difficult to play 88, particularly OOP against an unknown player. Next time only raise to 600.
About your read, I don't know how you can pinpoint him on not having a heart so early in the hand. I can understand you putting him on a small range because of his reraise (and BTW, you're now way behind any possible hand of this small range), but how can you be so sure he doesn't have a heart? You're whole reasoning about him slowplaying if he has a big heart makes no sense. His flop bet is consistent with a hand like AA or AK with or without hearts, there is no way you can be sure. If stacks were deeper you "could" try a shove to get him to fold on a such a board, but you already know its not going to work here. As played this is a clear fold, the minimum hand in his range is AK so you're way behind, there is a small chance he has AQ but its too risky and so is the whole "he doesn't have a big heart" line of thinking. Shoving here is reckless, if you did and won the hand don't be results oriented about it, because you won on a bad play.