I'm learning and need to find out what I did wrong?

BrentD22

BrentD22

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Sep 26, 2007
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402
poker stars - 50FPP for $500 prize pool. So really no big deal, but it still pissed me off.

I'm BrentD22

*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to BrentD22 [8h Ac]
droomer: folds
SlinkyInk: folds
luis_player: folds
fullofbs2005: calls 100
BrentD22: raises 100 to 200
Droa30: folds
mkmikee: calls 200
Caktail: folds
dmx1600: calls 100
fullofbs2005: calls 100
*** FLOP *** [Ah 7d Td]
dmx1600: checks
fullofbs2005: checks
BrentD22: bets 350
mkmikee: calls 350
dmx1600: folds
fullofbs2005: folds
*** TURN *** [Ah 7d Td] [Ks]
BrentD22: checks
mkmikee: checks
*** RIVER *** [Ah 7d Td Ks] [Th]
BrentD22: bets 1095 and is all-in
mkmikee: calls 1095
*** SHOW DOWN ***
BrentD22: shows [8h Ac] (two pair, Aces and Tens)
mkmikee: shows [9d Tc] (three of a kind, Tens)
mkmikee collected 3740 from pot


I think I should have bet at least 2/3 pot on turn. I also feel like the guy was a DONK for even calling the first 350. Was he? What else did I do wrong?
 
Dewmz

Dewmz

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In my opinion, you were basically playing in a freeroll for a decent payout. I don't think betting more on the turn would've gotten him out. Seems like your usual donk chaser.
 
Steveg1976

Steveg1976

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Why did you check the turn? He only called your previous bet which looks like he is chasing, bet again and make him pay to chase. He may still call but I think that was a mistake.
 
OzExorcist

OzExorcist

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For future, it helps if you can leave the stack size information at the top of the hand history. It also helps the analysis if you don't post the hand results: knowing how it turned out can make it difficult to give objective advice.

Anywho...

Pre-flop, I probably would've just thrown the hand away. It's just too easily dominated, and there aren't a lot of flops that will be kind to you. If an ace flops, you've gotta worry about your kicker. If it flops 8-high, you've likely got straights to worry about. So the only flop you're really happy to see is something like A8x rainbow, which doesn't come up often enough to make this profitable.

Next there's the bet size - if you are going to raise, make it more than the minimum. Betting the minimum just gives everyone else a really good price to call you.

Whether the guy was a donk for calling you on the flop or not depends on a lot of things... his playing style, your table image... though I suspect if he thinks there's any chance you're bluffing and you don't have an ace, then he's OK to call the flop.

You'll notice the king on the turn shut him down - I suspect if you had've shoved there you might've taken the pot down. But that's being influenced by knowing the result: without knowing that he's only got a pair of tens, it'd figure it was a risky play.

Also, betting 2/3 of the pot on the turn, the betting amount really isn't an option: if my math is right, the pot is 800-900 on the flop, around 1500 on the turn, and you've only got about 1000 left. If you were going to bet the turn, pushing all-in would've been the only reasonable bet.

As played, I don't hate the river: the kickers that have been beating you all along (AQ/AJ/A9 hands) just got counterfeited and the straight and flush draws haven't hit. I don't know many hands that you beat outright are calling here though, so chances are you're just playing for a split pot. Maybe you fold out some better hands, I don't know.

Anyway, I'll stop rambling: in a nutshell, if you fold this hand pre-flop you won't have to make so many difficult decisions on and after the flop. Failing that, if you make your pre-flop raises bigger then you'll fold out hands like T9 that are just hanging around because they're getting a good price to do so.
 
BrentD22

BrentD22

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402
To be honest my hands played % was so low and I played so few pots due to being really card dead I became annoyed. You are correct, and normally would not have played that hand.

Now after you (as you called it rambling) ask why I check on the turn I realized I checked on the turn because I played a marginal hand and never should have.

Thank you guys for helping out. I'm sitting here fuming at this guy when I should be mad at myself for even playing that hand. If I felt better about my kicker I would have pushed on the turn.
 
Last edited:
Yumboltking

Yumboltking

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Dec 12, 2007
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First remember all replies are only suggestions to better play. I'll start with hand selection. Ace 8 offsuit is not a good sarting hand even in late position. 2nd mistake, minimum preflop raise. Raise preflop to eliminate those who act later [closer to the button] and junk hands that might flop big. This narrows the range of hands that your opponent might have. Minimum preflop raises do neither one. Call of flop bet does tell you they have something, either a pair or better or a draw to a big hand. Now you are in a tight spot with top pair weak kicker and out of position. 3rd mistake or shall we say result from earlier mistakes is not deciding on turn wether we are good or need to give up this pot. Your check of turn gives control over to other player who can then make an easy decision. Last mistake is all in at river with top pair weak kicker, an easy call for a chaser who trips the river. An all in at turn was warranted if rest of reads lead you to believe ace rag was good and he was chasing some draw. You didn't tell us about any reads or chip stacks that would also affect play of hand a great deal. Remember poker alot more than your starting 2 cards. I hope this helps. GL on the felts.:D
 
Yumboltking

Yumboltking

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It seems like I type too slow, looks like every one covered everything I had to say. At least glad to know I'm not just a complete idiot.
 
WVHillbilly

WVHillbilly

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"I realized I checked on the turn because I played a marginal hand and never should have."

As I read through your OP this is basically what I was going to reply with. Seems your came to the realization on your own. That's why playing these hands (especially OOP) is so bad. We're just never sure where we stand when we hit and often allow other to catch-up.

Do remember though that the K should not be a scary card for you here. If he's got AK you were beat all along, so betting the turn (once you've decided to play the hand) should be automatic.
 
NuRelic

NuRelic

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Jan 23, 2008
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First remember all replies are only suggestions to better play. I'll start with hand selection. Ace 8 offsuit is not a good sarting hand even in late position. 2nd mistake, minimum preflop raise. Raise preflop to eliminate those who act later [closer to the button] and junk hands that might flop big. This narrows the range of hands that your opponent might have. Minimum preflop raises do neither one. Call of flop bet does tell you they have something, either a pair or better or a draw to a big hand. Now you are in a tight spot with top pair weak kicker and out of position. 3rd mistake or shall we say result from earlier mistakes is not deciding on turn wether we are good or need to give up this pot. Your check of turn gives control over to other player who can then make an easy decision. Last mistake is all in at river with top pair weak kicker, an easy call for a chaser who trips the river. An all in at turn was warranted if rest of reads lead you to believe ace rag was good and he was chasing some draw. You didn't tell us about any reads or chip stacks that would also affect play of hand a great deal. Remember poker alot more than your starting 2 cards. I hope this helps. GL on the felts.:D


Pretty much an ECHO! from me on this one.
 
P

posiview

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Sep 14, 2007
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Anyway, I'll stop rambling: in a nutshell, if you fold this hand pre-flop you won't have to make so many difficult decisions on and after the flop. Failing that, if you make your pre-flop raises bigger then you'll fold out hands like T9 that are just hanging around because they're getting a good price to do so.

Advice I've read and been given before and, so far, I'd say best piece of advise I've been given...
 
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