I Suck. Unfortunatly not Out

Goldog

Goldog

Rock Star
Joined
Dec 9, 2005
Total posts
377
I really suck at poker lately. I have no idea how to play anymore. I've been loosing and pressing. Here's a typical bustout. I just couldn't help myself.:heeeellll

full tilt poker Game #4433837628: $10 + $1 KO Sit & Go (33613663), Table 8 - 200/400 Ante 50 - No Limit Hold'em - 12:36:45 ET - 2007/12/08
Seat 1: BBUSCHE (3,751)
Seat 3: VirtualThief (6,700)
Seat 5: biggbar (860)
Seat 6: Ace McHoldEm (20,320)
Seat 7: pick_six1 (2,076)
Seat 8: kac2004 (9,824)
Seat 9: goldog (10,570)
BBUSCHE antes 50
VirtualThief antes 50
biggbar antes 50
Ace McHoldEm antes 50
pick_six1 antes 50
kac2004 antes 50
goldog antes 50
kac2004 posts the small blind of 200
goldog posts the big blind of 400
The button is in seat #7
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to goldog [Kh Ah]
BBUSCHE folds
VirtualThief folds
biggbar folds
Ace McHoldEm calls 400
pick_six1 folds
kac2004 calls 200
goldog has 15 seconds left to act
goldog raises to 1,600
Ace McHoldEm calls 1,200
kac2004 calls 1,200
*** FLOP *** [9d 8h Jh]
kac2004 checks
goldog has 15 seconds left to act
goldog bets 2,400
Ace McHoldEm raises to 18,670, and is all in
kac2004 calls 8,174, and is all in
goldog has 15 seconds left to act
goldog calls 6,520, and is all in
Ace McHoldEm shows [Jc Qd]
kac2004 shows [Qh Tc]
goldog shows [Kh Ah]
Uncalled bet of 9,750 returned to Ace McHoldEm
*** TURN *** [9d 8h Jh] [6s]
*** RIVER *** [9d 8h Jh 6s] [7s]
Ace McHoldEm shows a pair of Jacks
goldog shows Ace King high
Ace McHoldEm wins the side pot (1,492) with a pair of Jacks
kac2004 shows a straight, Queen high
kac2004 wins the main pot (29,672) with a straight, Queen high
goldog stands up
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 31,164 Main pot 29,672. Side pot 1,492. | Rake 0
Board: [9d 8h Jh 6s 7s]
Seat 1: BBUSCHE folded before the Flop
Seat 3: VirtualThief folded before the Flop
Seat 5: biggbar folded before the Flop
Seat 6: Ace McHoldEm showed [Jc Qd] and won (1,492) with a pair of Jacks
Seat 7: pick_six1 (button) folded before the Flop
Seat 8: kac2004 (small blind) showed [Qh Tc] and won (29,672) with a straight, Queen high
Seat 9: goldog (big blind) showed [Kh Ah] and lost with Ace King high


HELP!!! :stickyman

goldog
 
zachvac

zachvac

Legend
Joined
Sep 14, 2007
Total posts
7,832
I don't mind leading out with the bet, I'd probably make it a bit smaller, but when someone shoves and gets called you have to know that at best you have 6 outs. Straight draws, made straights, 2 pairs, sets, etc. take away outs. Sure once in a while you get really lucky and they're both sitting on straight draws, but even then you have to dodge the straight and even either of them pairing beats you. I see no reason to risk your entire tournament life on what is at best a 6-outer.
 
c9h13no3

c9h13no3

Is drawing with AK
Joined
Jan 2, 2007
Total posts
8,819
8 hearts left in the deck? And he bet only half the pot. If anything, I'd say push or check, since you have the big stack to act after you. He'll do the bullying for you. Possibly check raise. But either way, that weak bet didn't really do much other than get you more pot committed.

And also I think I'd fold this here the way it played out. You're possibly lucky that one of them wasn't holding more of your flush outs. And from that board, you know pairing your king or ace probably won't do it since someone at *least* has two pair. And pot odds be damned, given the stack sizes of the rest of the field, and the number of outs you're drawing to, I think you can still make the money if you fold this. Even if you are drawing to 7-9 flush outs, that's 28%-36%. If you fold this, you've got ~13ish blinds left, and you're not exactly short stacked compared with the rest of the table.
 
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blankoblanco

blankoblanco

plays poker on hard mode
Joined
May 16, 2006
Total posts
6,129
I don't mind leading out with the bet, I'd probably make it a bit smaller, but when someone shoves and gets called you have to know that at best you have 6 outs. Straight draws, made straights, 2 pairs, sets, etc. take away outs. Sure once in a while you get really lucky and they're both sitting on straight draws, but even then you have to dodge the straight and even either of them pairing beats you. I see no reason to risk your entire tournament life on what is at best a 6-outer.

his bet already was really small. half the pot on a board with that texture. and this is a knockout. they'll show up with top pair, pair + straight draw and crap all the time. once you lead, the call is fine. pokerstove real ranges for them and he's getting plenty more than the right odds. tournament life schmournament life, this isn't deepstacked tournament poker. the equity edges you're going to realistically find will only be so large, play to win, prize money is top-heavy, etc.
 
B

BigWaveDaveO

Rising Star
Joined
Oct 21, 2007
Total posts
10
Can't say that I haven't made similar calls myself. It's tough to give up a nut flush card draw when you know your opponents are capable of pushing their own flush or straight draw (not sure if this was your read). However, their bets are representing something and if they have any kind of a hand right now like a straight or top pair then you're behind already. Better to make this call (or better yet lead out with a big bet) when you have top pair and a four flush.

But don't get down on yourself. I feel bad about my play off and on all the time. What did I do wrong? Should I have called that previous apparent bluff? In hindsight my read was wrong, but was I really wrong to call when that guy was bluffing all night?

Combuboom has a point in that you've got to gamble at some point if you want to win and depending on your read of these players this may have been the right time.
 
c9h13no3

c9h13no3

Is drawing with AK
Joined
Jan 2, 2007
Total posts
8,819
With an all in and a call all in, I think he pretty much has to assume he's drawing to only his flush outs, which are possibly less than 9. A short stack would have shoved a draw, but to just check call an all in seems to me like he figured the two largest stacks in the game would make a bluff at it.

Sure, he's getting somewhere in the range of 30%, but why not just push all in with any random A or K preflop on a different hand? Even if you're dominated, you're still getting the same range of odds, and you'd steal a ton of blinds in the process.

IMO, when things get short handed & the blinds are high, calling all ins with weaker draws becomes pretty unprofitable (shoving is a different story), when you can generally get all in preflop with better odds.

And sure, top heavy prize structure & all that, but some money is also significantly better than no money. I think we can pick a better spot than this even with only 12-13 blinds left, considering the information we have after the all in & the call and the position we'd folded.

All arguing aside, I shove this on the flop like wicked fast.
 
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V

viking999

Visionary
Joined
Jul 4, 2005
Total posts
512
Betting with this kind of draw must be either because you think you'll get a better hand to fold or because you think someone with a lower % to win than your draw will call.

It's a very juicy flop, and I doubt you'd get both to fold. In fact, I doubt you'd get both to fold even if you shove all-in right away. This flop lends itself to players having garbage (KQ, 55), or pretty much unfoldable hands (two pair, set, straight, pair and an open ender, etc.).

You are a favorite versus a single pair with no big draw and a non-A/K kicker. If one of these hands calls you, then you're getting value from a bet. That's pretty rare given that flop (and many of those will fold if you bet). Technically, the QJ falls into that category, but you only have a slight edge against that hand.

I'd probably check and call if I'm getting close to the right flush odds.
 
CAPT. ZIGZAG

CAPT. ZIGZAG

Legend
Joined
Dec 5, 2007
Total posts
1,032
With the button that close to my right, I wouldn't have bet out that hard. I would just have called the blinds.

JMO..which ain't worth much.

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