Did I play Kings wrong here? + This was funny.

[AZE]

First hand I play...

Full Tilt Poker Game #2913392896: $20 + $2 Sit & Go (22232060), Table 3 - 15/30 - No Limit Hold'em - 3:34:20 ET - 2007/07/11
Seat 1: torbati33 (1,485)
Seat 2: PhilZone (2,605)
Seat 3: MizzouRKO (1,240)
Seat 4: Gehennas (1,230)
Seat 5: Marked player (1,500)
Seat 6: ItsAze (1,500)
Seat 7: SmokeMorePot (1,470)
Seat 8: ryanatyahoo (1,270)
Seat 9: zaibatsu1 (1,200)
MizzouRKO posts the small blind of 15
Gehennas posts the big blind of 30
The button is in seat #2
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to ItsAze [Kh Kd]
Marked player folds
ItsAze raises to 80
SmokeMorePot folds
ryanatyahoo folds
zaibatsu1 folds
torbati33 folds
PhilZone folds
MizzouRKO folds
Gehennas raises to 210
ItsAze has 15 seconds left to act
ItsAze raises to 340
Gehennas raises to 1,230, and is all in
ItsAze calls 890
Gehennas shows [Ah Ac]
ItsAze shows [Kh Kd]
*** FLOP *** [Qc Ad 5d]
ItsAze: sick
*** TURN *** [Qc Ad 5d] [7c]
*** RIVER *** [Qc Ad 5d 7c] [6d]
ItsAze: sicccccck
Gehennas shows three of a kind, Aces
ItsAze shows a pair of Kings
Gehennas wins the pot (2,475) with three of a kind, Aces
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 2,475 | Rake 0
Board: [Qc Ad 5d 7c 6d]
Seat 1: torbati33 didn't bet (folded)
Seat 2: PhilZone (button) didn't bet (folded)
Seat 3: MizzouRKO (small blind) folded before the Flop
Seat 4: Gehennas (big blind) showed [Ah Ac] and won (2,475) with three of a kind, Aces
Seat 5: Marked player didn't bet (folded)
Seat 6: ItsAze showed [Kh Kd] and lost with a pair of Kings
Seat 7: SmokeMorePot didn't bet (folded)
Seat 8: ryanatyahoo didn't bet (folded)
Seat 9: zaibatsu1 didn't bet (folded)

Then.. the very next hand...

Full Tilt Poker Game #2913397208: $20 + $2 Sit & Go (22232060), Table 3 - 15/30 - No Limit Hold'em - 3:35:14 ET - 2007/07/11
Seat 1: torbati33 (1,485)
Seat 2: PhilZone (2,605)
Seat 3: MizzouRKO (1,225)
Seat 4: Gehennas (2,475)
Seat 5: Marked player (1,500)
Seat 6: ItsAze (270)
Seat 7: SmokeMorePot (1,470)
Seat 8: ryanatyahoo (1,270)
Seat 9: zaibatsu1 (1,200)
Gehennas posts the small blind of 15
Marked player posts the big blind of 30
The button is in seat #3
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to ItsAze [8d Kc]
ItsAze folds
SmokeMorePot folds
ItsAze: of course
ryanatyahoo folds
zaibatsu1 folds
SmokeMorePot: that happened to me earlier today
torbati33 folds
PhilZone folds
MizzouRKO calls 30
ItsAze: I get sucked out 4 tournaments in a row, and then the 5th one KK goes against AA, lol
Gehennas raises to 120
SmokeMorePot: and queens were in the hand too
ItsAze: first time I've seen a PP in HOURS
Marked player has 15 seconds left to act
ItsAze: nice hand man
Marked player raises to 840
MizzouRKO folds
Gehennas raises to 2,475, and is all in
Marked player calls 660, and is all in
Gehennas shows [Ks Kh]
Marked player shows [Ad Ac]
Uncalled bet of 975 returned to Gehennas
SmokeMorePot: wtf
*** FLOP *** [7c 4d Th]
ItsAze: HAHAHAHAHAHA!!!
*** TURN *** [7c 4d Th] [3c]
*** RIVER *** [7c 4d Th 3c] [8c]
Gehennas shows a pair of Kings
Marked player shows a pair of Aces
Marked player wins the pot (3,030) with a pair of Aces
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 3,030 | Rake 0
Board: [7c 4d Th 3c 8c]
Seat 1: torbati33 didn't bet (folded)
Seat 2: PhilZone didn't bet (folded)
Seat 3: MizzouRKO (button) folded before the Flop
Seat 4: Gehennas (small blind) showed [Ks Kh] and lost with a pair of Kings
Seat 5: Marked player (big blind) showed [Ad Ac] and won (3,030) with a pair of Aces
Seat 6: ItsAze didn't bet (folded)
Seat 7: SmokeMorePot didn't bet (folded)
Seat 8: ryanatyahoo didn't bet (folded)
Seat 9: zaibatsu1 didn't bet (folded)

And then this...

Full Tilt Poker Game #2913401402: $20 + $2 Sit & Go (22232060), Table 3 - 15/30 - No Limit Hold'em - 3:36:07 ET - 2007/07/11
Seat 1: torbati33 (1,485)
Seat 2: PhilZone (2,605)
Seat 3: MizzouRKO (1,195)
Seat 4: Gehennas (975)
Seat 5: Marked player (3,030)
Seat 6: ItsAze (270)
Seat 7: SmokeMorePot (1,470)
Seat 8: ryanatyahoo (1,270)
Seat 9: zaibatsu1 (1,200)
Marked player posts the small blind of 15
ItsAze posts the big blind of 30
The button is in seat #4
ItsAze: LMFAO!
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to ItsAze [5h 4d]
Gehennas: lol
SmokeMorePot folds
ItsAze: HAHAHAHAHAHA
ryanatyahoo folds
ItsAze: that made it worth it
Gehennas: wtf
zaibatsu1 folds
torbati33 calls 30
PhilZone folds
ItsAze: I don't even care anymore.
MizzouRKO folds
Gehennas folds
Marked player calls 15
ItsAze checks
*** FLOP *** [Ac 5s 4s]
Marked player checks
ItsAze has 15 seconds left to act
ItsAze bets 60
torbati33 raises to 120
Marked player folds
ItsAze raises to 240, and is all in
torbati33 calls 120
ItsAze shows [5h 4d]
torbati33 shows [Ah 5d]
*** TURN *** [Ac 5s 4s] [9d]
*** RIVER *** [Ac 5s 4s 9d] [7h]
ItsAze shows two pair, Fives and Fours
torbati33 shows two pair, Aces and Fives
torbati33 wins the pot (570) with two pair, Aces and Fives
ItsAze: brutal
ItsAze stands up
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 570 | Rake 0
Board: [Ac 5s 4s 9d 7h]
Seat 1: torbati33 showed [Ah 5d] and won (570) with two pair, Aces and Fives
Seat 2: PhilZone didn't bet (folded)
Seat 3: MizzouRKO didn't bet (folded)
Seat 4: Gehennas (button) didn't bet (folded)
Seat 5: Marked player (small blind) folded on the Flop
Seat 6: ItsAze (big blind) showed [5h 4d] and lost with two pair, Fives and Fours
Seat 7: SmokeMorePot didn't bet (folded)
Seat 8: ryanatyahoo didn't bet (folded)
Seat 9: zaibatsu1 didn't bet (folded)

Talk about a bad day today...

 

[shinedown.45]

That does really suck, just a run of bad-luck

 

[AZE]

^ Read all the other posts... I've had a pretty bad day today, and I've had a pretty bad go at the whole online poker thing since I started about 3 weeks ago.

I'm down about $500 / $600 and I honestly have only tilted maybe $50. The rest, I either got it in with the best and got sucked out on, or shit like KK running into AA.

I'm too dedicated to getting good to let it stop me.. but it sure as hell does feel like running an up-hill marathon... getting kicked in the face the whole way up.

 

[Ronaldadio]

AZE, how long u been playing poker m8?

 

[Debi]

On the first hand I would have raised more - after that of course you had to call the all in and you were beat no matter what.

You didn't play the 2nd hand - and that was the right move in my opinion.

The third hand - you had to go all-in with such a short stack and flopping 2 pair. It was just unfortunate he flopped 2 bigger pair.

You will find it more interesting if you don't post the results right away. Get feedback on how to play the hand and then show the results. You want advice based on what you knew at the time - showing us how the hand turned out skews our thinking sometimes.

You have a great attitude though. I have seen in other threads where you were advised that you played the hands incorrectly and you were willing to admit where you went wrong. Not everyone is that open to suggestions on their strategy.

 

[Black_Fox]

Unlucky with the KK, nothing you can do there.

Unlucky with the 54 shortstacked, again - shortstacked, you couldnt get away from that at all.

Keep at it mate, my advice would be to step down a level. Try the $5 sng's or the $3.25 sngs - for a small price you can win a decent prize. Try and see some flops with the likes of JTs, 98s, 76s, 65s, A5s, A4s, A3s, A2s and of course the big hands too. Get your money in with the best of it and get it out when you dont and just keep playing - again, step down from the $20 sngs for a while. Get that bankroll back!

Keep at it.

BF

 

[AZE]

Ronald - I played my very first game about 2 years ago. Never was really that into it -- started to like the game and get more serious about it between 6 months and a year from now. Finally deciding to go on the road to TRY and make something of it about 2 months ago. I still have a LONG way to go.

Dakota - thank you, I appreciate that. I really just felt like posting this to kind of brag about how I got beat... it's funny, this is one of the only sports I know of that players get better enjoyment out of sharing how they got BEAT instead of how they won.

Black_Fox - I respect and appreciate your advice, but the fact of the matter is I want to see if I can make something of this, as in a real pay-off from playing... and $5 SnG money is just too easy to blow.
I do reasonably well playing live - which is one of the most frustrating things about playing online and losing.
I also own a design & print firm (business cards, flyers, t-shirts, websites, etc) that makes me a little bit of cash too. So I do have the option of just dropping another hundred or two in the account if I have to.
I don't know, maybe my approach is all wrong - but in pool I've played single games for $200 (on rare occasions of course), and in poker I'm used to playing $100 SnG's and $1 / $2 NL games... jumping on the computer and playing for $5 doesn't seem right for me (not that I wouldn't try my hardest).
I'm a fast learner, and when I get into something I get totally WRAPPED in it.. for the past two weeks I've been doing nothing but playing poker and reading poker literature. I plan on getting at least pretty good, and moderately fast.

Am I wrong here? You guys have more experience - let me know.

 

[jeffred1111]

Step down as was suggested. Right now, it is frustrating because you pop 20$ in a SNG and have your KK run into AA. If you were very highly overolled, like you would if you played the 5$ SNGs, than you would laugh it off and it wouldn't affect your play.

Even your question has to if you played the above hands wrong indicates that you are second guessing good, sound decisions based on the results. This is NOT what you want to do.

You started playing seriously 6 months to a year ago. This is not nearly enough, especially if you plaed live before (you play 1/3 the hands per hour that you do online) to get an estimate of the level you're at and of your experience. A lot of Bridge players say that it takes 10 years to form a decent player (break-even to winning player playing for $ to the point): I'd wager that it takes at least that to form a poker player that can comfortably rely on his game for a constant source of income. You need to get the hands under your belt and you'll get there easier if you invest less money.

Competition will be softer and you'll get to practice moves (bullying, steal and resteal, etc.) that you might be scared to try in a 20$ game... You can always play the odd higher buy-in, but I'd stick to the basics for now: read, study and play.

 

[dj11]

I would guess we all think that you need a whole lot more hands under your belt before you challenge the world.

The example above suggest you have some talent, you did nothing wrong in either of the two you played, nor in folding that 3rd example.

Until you get to the point that when someone sucks outs and beats you, you can move on as if you just won that pot, then you still suffer from not enough hands under your belt syndrome.

 

[AZE]

^ understood, but in all honesty - to me, losing $5 and $20 is the same thing. Not that I'm loaded rich, but for the years past - way before poker - I relied on gambling as a form of income (playing pool).
The beats in a $5 SnG honestly hit me the same as a $20, but the $20 can win me more $ - while the $5's only comfort is I can play more with the same money -- but the winnings from $5 tournies don't last at all.

As far as 10 years to create a good player, I can believe that.. But I also believe I can do it in a lot less time -- just like everyone else non the less -- but I really believe it.

 

[rob5775]

If you have the bankroll to sustain variance swings at 20$ sngs, then by all means go for it. The game, honestly, is not that different from the 5$ sngs through the 30$ (never played any higher)... so if money isn't an issue, neither should be your playing experience. You seem to have a good grasp of basic poker concepts, and are working to get better by being at this forum - posting and taking part of discussions.

Now, that being said... if you drop 100$ or so every occasionally at home games or local casinos for STT's, that's different then playing 20$ STT's online. You will play many more online, and lose quite a bit of cash if you suffer a horrific downswing. It is not unheard of to not place in 10 sngs in a row, sometimes more. If your bankroll can't handle that type of variance, then move down a limit. If it can, then keep on, keep on. If you make the right plays, in the long run you will make much more money then the person who makes horribly incorrect plays and scores some quick paydays.

 

[alpha3m]

If you have the bankroll to sustain variance swings at 20$ sngs, then by all means go for it. The game, honestly, is not that different from the 5$ sngs through the 30$ (never played any higher)... so if money isn't an issue, neither should be your playing experience. You seem to have a good grasp of basic poker concepts, and are working to get better by being at this forum - posting and taking part of discussions.

Now, that being said... if you drop 100$ or so every occasionally at home games or local casinos for STT's, that's different then playing 20$ STT's online. You will play many more online, and lose quite a bit of cash if you suffer a horrific downswing. It is not unheard of to not place in 10 sngs in a row, sometimes more. If your bankroll can't handle that type of variance, then move down a limit. If it can, then keep on, keep on. If you make the right plays, in the long run you will make much more money then the person who makes horribly incorrect plays and scores some quick paydays.

Very true. I've been playing close to three years, online and live, and have cashed quite a bit more than I've put in. For instance, I deposited $50 at Full Tilt, just to play a little. Already cashed $100, still have $140 sitting in the bankroll. Basically just been playing some little guarenteed tourneys here and there, and ring games to build up the cash. Been doing that on UB and Stars too.

 

[pezjb]

Only thing I have to say is with your first hand, you didn't even raise 3x the BB. That is asking for people to call with their suited connectors, Ax, or any two napkins. In my opinion with the SnG which happen to usually be loose, raise it up a good 4x the BB.. making it 120 to go.

 

[The_Tizzle]

Only thing I have to say is with your first hand, you didn't even raise 3x the BB. That is asking for people to call with their suited connectors, Ax, or any two napkins. In my opinion with the SnG which happen to usually be loose, raise it up a good 4x the BB.. making it 120 to go.

I agree with this, plus, anytime you manage to get re-raised twice before the flop by the same player - you need to pass the hand.

I realise this is an exceptional circumstance with it being K-K plus in the early stages of a low stakes SNG and you dont know how anyone plays, but i would be thinking to myself how can this player raise me twice pre-flop with a hand that isnt beating K-K. I think with hands from 10-10 to Q-Q he would just push after you raised him again, but when he raises the second time this just looks like he is trying to get as much value as possible for his aces.

 

[rob5775]

I agree with this, plus, anytime you manage to get re-raised twice before the flop by the same player - you need to pass the hand.

I realise this is an exceptional circumstance with it being K-K plus in the early stages of a low stakes SNG and you dont know how anyone plays, but i would be thinking to myself how can this player raise me twice pre-flop with a hand that isnt beating K-K. I think with hands from 10-10 to Q-Q he would just push after you raised him again, but when he raises the second time this just looks like he is trying to get as much value as possible for his aces.

I strongly disagree here... villian could be making this play with anything JJ+, AK and maybe AQ. We are only behind one specific hand, and you can't lay KK down everytime you get reraised/ shoved on preflop. If you can lay down KK because you know specifically the other person has AA, then your scary good. Pro's may do that, but usually against players they have been up against thousands of times before and have great reads on. Against some random person in a SnG, laying KK down preflop is horrible.

 

[AZE]

There is no way I was laying down KK in this situation, if opp. has the ONE hand that is ahead of me here then that's fine - I'm willing to take those odds EVERY time -- dealer can deal me KK all day and I will call 99% of all-ins, the only exception is if I have a SUPER read on my opponent and I just KNOW he has AA.

I like to know what the members here think I should have done with KK (not knowing what the guy has).. You guys always give me helpful information -- even when the two suggestions I get from two members are completely opposite I still learn.

 

[Myar]

Myself 1-2 opps and I am not going to fold unless I know at least one very well. 3+ opps staying in I will lay it down just because there is too many others that can get lucky even though they are playing stupid hands.

The other day I layed down k's, not because I *knew* he had aces, but because I had played against someone alot and had never seen him go all in pre flop, NEVER, but he did this time, and on the very first hand of the tourney. He had aces. He could have had AK suited QQ or similar, but I felt much better just waiting than take the risk whatever he would have had, even if I would had won.