Did I make an errant call ?

ChickenArise

ChickenArise

Legend
Bronze Level
Joined
Feb 24, 2018
Total posts
2,089
Awards
1
Chips
34
27 will advance in this satellite and a little over 60 remain at this point with the average stack being around 50k. Seems when I get screwed I am always defending the blinds but I have a defensible hand.

Without being results oriented, did I make a huge mistake(s) in this hand?

https://www.boomplayer.com/29757940_4D285EF59E
 
W

williamsc99

Rock Star
Silver Level
Joined
Jun 1, 2017
Total posts
438
Chips
0
in my range this hand is fold pre-flop without complications
 
Q

quant1986

Visionary
Silver Level
Joined
Mar 22, 2018
Total posts
599
Awards
1
Chips
2
preflop - I think it is fine
flop - prefer open jam or check-raise to all in

You cannot fold top pair and flush draw here given stack size although I expect most of the time you are 50/50
 
ChickenArise

ChickenArise

Legend
Bronze Level
Joined
Feb 24, 2018
Total posts
2,089
Awards
1
Chips
34
in my range this hand is fold pre-flop without complications
Is this always? You dont defend J9s for a single bet raise pre flop? I would say youre way too tight if you have no other reasoning.

I really need a good reason to defend the blind because I have so much trouble playing from out of position but I have to think you are missing much value if you dont defend here.

But on the other hand, you would still be in the tournament.

Defending the blinds. Hmmmmm.
 
pancho_1954

pancho_1954

Rock Star
Platinum Level
Joined
Apr 28, 2018
Total posts
378
Awards
6
VE
Chips
99
to see how the play ended, I think you should not have played that hand, at first I think I would have played like you did, but I would not bet those 12k, I would have played with more calm and I would see how the other players act, it's a very risky play and unfortunately did not come out the color or another play that will help you win that hand, and if the other players had bet a lot just do not pay
 
playinggameswithu

playinggameswithu

Legend
Silver Level
Joined
Nov 7, 2017
Total posts
2,250
Chips
0
Pre flop is good. Although the 2x is not a steal but a sucker someone in raise....I'd checked to see on flop and the call is a difficult one but I would realize we are just effectively coin flipping with 57%...the draw looks better than it is but what could you have done.
 
D

D1ieg0

Rising Star
Bronze Level
Joined
Sep 6, 2017
Total posts
9
Chips
0
Ouch... it's a good hand, flop maybe a check it would be a better move and then sees how it goes. Probably you could fold with the other 8, not me, I don't think the other dude goes all in with that.
 
Flight777sem

Flight777sem

Rock Star
Silver Level
Joined
Dec 12, 2018
Total posts
111
Chips
0
Definitely it’s the right move to defence that hand. On the flop it would be better if you play check call,after your bet when he shows on you ; we are almost sure he has AJ or QQ+ But it’s hard to fold while there is flush draw. I don’t think you made a obvious mistake but if you would not risk all the chips sure there was another way of playing
 
ChickenArise

ChickenArise

Legend
Bronze Level
Joined
Feb 24, 2018
Total posts
2,089
Awards
1
Chips
34
Thanks for all of the feedback guys. Whether I agree or not, it is always interesting to hear how others would have played it and what I may not have considered. Cheers!
 
Poker Orifice

Poker Orifice

Fully Tilted
Platinum Level
Joined
Jan 19, 2008
Total posts
25,600
Awards
6
CA
Chips
968
Typically with 14bb's we're looking for spots to 3bai pre vs. LP steals.

BUT in this hand the SB has just 'called' too on a very short stack. One would immediately assume we do not have fold equity here (I mean typically what would someone just FLAT here with in the SB? If they're half competent I'd think it'd be a monster hand AA, KK that would just consider only flatting here... but if it's a fish (more likely in this scenario) they're likely just making a terrible call pre on a super short stack.
So... because we're getting such great odds here, even though we only have 14bb's I would prefer to FLAT call in THIS spot.

Once we hit the flop so hard like this, our best bet is to 'check to the raiser'.. and then CRAI (I believe we still have fold equity vs. some hands in their range).


cliff
IF we flat here pre (which I think is probably best option Flat > Shove > Fold )
then for sure we CRAI on flop (check raise All-in)
 
Poker Orifice

Poker Orifice

Fully Tilted
Platinum Level
Joined
Jan 19, 2008
Total posts
25,600
Awards
6
CA
Chips
968
Pre flop is good. Although the 2x is not a steal but a sucker someone in raise....I'd checked to see on flop and the call is a difficult one but I would realize we are just effectively coin flipping with 57%...the draw looks better than it is but what could you have done.


Yah... but No!!
First off, a minraise pre is COMPLETELY STANDARD sizing in 2018 (& at least a couple years prior.. once we're out of early level). There's no hidden meaning to it. IF anything it looks STRONG because SB & BB are both short. A bigger part of villain's range is more likely to just open-shove BUT we dont' know this without knowing this player's history where we've seen their tendancies.
2x could certainly be a steal in this spot. It could also be a raise to induce.

You'd check to see on flop? Check to see what?

Why is that turn call a difficult one?

How would you realize you're coin flipping vs. 57%??? Did villain show you his hand?

fwiw (probably worth absolutely NOTHING in this case cuz I don't think you're capable).. HERO has SMASHED this flop!!! in a HUGE WAY! (if he's calling pre here & is planning on folding on a flop like this????? He should take up another game).
 
Poker Orifice

Poker Orifice

Fully Tilted
Platinum Level
Joined
Jan 19, 2008
Total posts
25,600
Awards
6
CA
Chips
968
Definitely it’s the right move to defence that hand. On the flop it would be better if you play check call,after your bet when he shows on you ; we are almost sure he has AJ or QQ+ But it’s hard to fold while there is flush draw. I don’t think you made a obvious mistake but if you would not risk all the chips sure there was another way of playing


Why are we SURE villain has AJ+ QQ+??? Won't they be c-betting their air here in this spot as well? Do you figure they're going to 'check it back' 3-way vs. blinds who've shown no strength at all here? (vs. SB who is this shallow?)
 
S

spr0ck3t

Rock Star
Silver Level
Joined
Nov 15, 2018
Total posts
139
Chips
0
I might be biased because I could already tell how this was gonna go, but I don't think it's a call - I also don't think it's a bet.

If you had AJ without a flush or flush draw, you could bet to try and defend flush draws and get calls from hands like yours. Then you'd even have outs against 2/3 of overpairs.

Having the top pair weak kicker and flush draw feels like a check/raise here - and when you checked and were shoved on, you could think about it - in which case I still think a call might be OK.

ESPECIALLY because you weren't the initial raiser though, I think this is a check - and calling the shove after that is probably OK. If villain checks behind, maybe you draw a flush.

Having donk-bet into villain, and Then gotten shoved on, I still think it's a fold, though.
 
A

ankitgupta45

Enthusiast
Silver Level
Joined
Aug 30, 2017
Total posts
28
Chips
0
Some stats on vllain would have helped me give u better opinion on this hand.
Preflop : Its fine, I wouldnt be writing any comment on this hand if u had made such a big mistake of folding J9s vs BTN open and with such great pot odds.

Postflop Line : When u lead , it has to be to call any all in . if u look at the hands the villain is shoving into us are some A-x with ace of clubs,Kx with king of clubs , Qof clubs , any jack and overpairs . here, overpairs are such a tiny portion of his range . Most of his hands are drawing hands
Just in case u dont lead , ur plan has to be check raise all in . 13BB deep and a hand with such great equity u shouldnt fold.
I am way too happy with the call and its not like u r 2 off the money , u still have a distance to cover and i think this spot u picked up is very proftitable !
Great play overall and yes sometimes in poker , u lose even after doing everything right.
 
Matt Vaughan

Matt Vaughan

King of Moody Rants
Bronze Level
Joined
Feb 20, 2008
Total posts
7,150
Awards
5
Chips
6
Preflop is beyond standard. It would be somewhat shameful to fold unless we were HYPER close to the bubble - which we are not. Mandatory call, even at this stack depth, and imo it doesn't matter whether or not the SB was involved.

So we get to the flop, a great one for this hand, and lead? I don't really see the appeal. We have a hand that's fairly invulnerable to turn cards if BTN checks back, and by checking we allow him to sometimes bet his stuff that's in terrible shape before we jam.
 
DieCosta

DieCosta

Rock Star
Silver Level
Joined
Dec 26, 2018
Total posts
186
Chips
0
Always

Every day some ring call I do but still learning and improving 😉
 
playinggameswithu

playinggameswithu

Legend
Silver Level
Joined
Nov 7, 2017
Total posts
2,250
Chips
0
Yah... but No!!
First off, a minraise pre is COMPLETELY STANDARD sizing in 2018 (& at least a couple years prior.. once we're out of early level). There's no hidden meaning to it. IF anything it looks STRONG because SB & BB are both short. A bigger part of villain's range is more likely to just open-shove BUT we dont' know this without knowing this player's history where we've seen their tendancies.
2x could certainly be a steal in this spot. It could also be a raise to induce.

You'd check to see on flop? Check to see what?

Why is that turn call a difficult one?

How would you realize you're coin flipping vs. 57%??? Did villain show you his hand?

fwiw (probably worth absolutely NOTHING in this case cuz I don't think you're capable).. HERO has SMASHED this flop!!! in a HUGE WAY! (if he's calling pre here & is planning on folding on a flop like this????? He should take up another game).

If it is shallow MTT stacks likely at the late stage of an MTT 2x becomes standard....here it is a dangerous sucker someone in to the hand fold out minimal amount of players raise.

You'd check to see on flop? Check to see what?

Obviously check to see their action with that flop. Specifically bet sizing...we can an should go for a check raise if we think we are just being c -bet.


Why is that turn call a difficult one?

It's OK not a smashed flop bro.
How would you realize you're coin flipping vs. 57%??? Did villain show you his hand?

The draw looks wayyyyyy better than it is like most in NLH. It can be deduced. That is why I added what could he do. At some point to me I would ask what am I losing to as i usually do with hands what am I losing to what am I in danger of and what can call. You got a mediocre draw to TPOKK+ QQ+ two overs and flush draw.You think a 7-9% edge is auto justification to get it all in? Smashed flop???? he has top pair almost no kicker with likely to be nuts flush draw....DRAW. He doesnt have two pair or better which would put him at 3 to 1 which is still a mediocre gamble. Smashed if he had 80% or better. What is villian doing what he did with?
 
Last edited:
B

blata8ruga

Visionary
Bronze Level
Joined
Nov 8, 2018
Total posts
877
Awards
2
Chips
46
I am not big on defending my blinds unless i have a worthy holding
 
U

UncleConRon

Visionary
Silver Level
Joined
Oct 8, 2015
Total posts
880
Chips
0
My opinion

They won't let me knockout opponents but will let me play defensive at that point. Some reason they don't think I grind good enough after getting a lead.
 
Ryan Laplante

Ryan Laplante

CardsChat Pro
Silver Level
Joined
Jul 2, 2014
Total posts
914
Awards
5
Chips
1
27 will advance in this satellite and a little over 60 remain at this point with the average stack being around 50k. Seems when I get screwed I am always defending the blinds but I have a defensible hand.

Without being results oriented, did I make a huge mistake(s) in this hand?

https://www.boomplayer.com/29757940_4D285EF59E
I would prefer to check jam this, but otherwise it is well played.
 
Top