I was chuffed to bits at this play - I FOLDED!

gjshand

gjshand

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I thought this was a great fold, would you have folded?

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Game #871215399 - Tournament Cardschat.com - 15/30 No Limit Texas Hold'em - 2005/06/22-14:18:14.8 (CST)
Table "Cardschat.com 6" (MTT) -- Seat 3 is the button
Seat 1: Eduardom74 (1,425 in chips)
Seat 2: minorthreat1 (1,170 in chips)
Seat 3: Smarts62 (2,110 in chips)
Seat 4: python3 (885 in chips)
Seat 5: MikeD77 (3,503 in chips)
Seat 6: Anaconda75 (2,345 in chips)
Seat 7: chrisottawa (1,530 in chips)
Seat 8: Aemacst (2,142 in chips)
Seat 9: Obrien69 (1,425 in chips)
Seat 10: gjshand (950 in chips)
python3 : Post Small Blind (15)
MikeD77 : Post Big Blind (30)
Dealing...
Dealt to gjshand [ 4c ]
Dealt to gjshand [ 9c ]
Anaconda75: Call (30)
chrisottawa: Call (30)
Aemacst : Fold
Obrien69: Fold
gjshand : Call (30)
Eduardom74: Fold
minorthreat1: Fold
Smarts62: Call (30)
python3 : Call (15)
MikeD77 : Check
*** FLOP *** : [ 8s 4s 4d ]
python3 : Check
MikeD77 : Bet (60)
Anaconda75: Fold
chrisottawa: Call (60)
gjshand : Raise (240)
Smarts62: Fold
python3 : Fold
MikeD77 : Call (180)
chrisottawa: Call (180)
*** TURN *** : [ 8s 4s 4d ] [ Js ]
MikeD77 : Bet (100)
chrisottawa: Call (100)
gjshand : Call (100)
*** RIVER *** : [ 8s 4s 4d Js ] [ Qh ]
MikeD77 : Bet (180)
chrisottawa: Raise (360)
gjshand : Fold
MikeD77 : Call (180)
*** SUMMARY ***
Pot: 1,920 | Board: [ 8s 4s 4d Js Qh ]
Eduardom74 didn't bet (folded)
minorthreat1 didn't bet (folded)
Smarts62 lost 30 (folded)
python3 lost 30 (folded)
MikeD77 lost 730 [ 5s 7s ] (a flush, jack high)
Anaconda75 lost 30 (folded)
chrisottawa bet 730, collected 1,920, net +1,190 (showed hand) [ As 6s ] (a flush, ace high)
Aemacst didn't bet (folded)
Obrien69 didn't bet (folded)
gjshand lost 370 (folded) [ 4c 9c ] (three of a kind, fours)
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K

KK_Cowboy

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well you were careful with this

It's a good thing you were too. I think you played this hand well to get off at the river.
 
S

sputnik2

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but why did you call in the first place? with such low cards??????
 
B

biggamer86

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They were suited many people make that mistake, but the guy played that flush really obviously.
 
Four Dogs

Four Dogs

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You could even make a case that you should have called on the river. You were being offered 9:1 odds with trip 4's. However, up against two opponents? At least one of them hit their flush and a final bet would have been a waist of chips.
I'm looking for a mistake somewhere, by anyone, but nothing leaps out as a totaly bone head move. Let's take a look at the flop. A flush draw needs 3:1 odds to call. You gave MikeD77 a little less than 2:1. Your bet after the flop was just the right amount to make it a mistake for him to call, but not so much to scare him off. That's the idea right? After MikeD77 called, chrissottawa had just short of the odds he needed to call. Both your opponents made marginal mistakes in hanging around after the flop. Keep in mind that it doesnt really matter that you might have been up against 2 flush draws. If one misses, they both miss.This could have been a big payday for you and if you keep playing that way, in the long run, it will be.
 
HoldemChamp

HoldemChamp

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I have to agree with Sputnik.

Even suited and on the Button. 4 9 is a trash hand. You could have saved yourself over 300 chips by not even getting involved in that hand at all.

Read another post about some guy in stud that got made be he had 20 outs on the river and the other guy had like 4. His starting hand was suited but not even as high as a 5.

So like him yes when you flopped you played things correctly and then got out of the way when you felt you were beat.

But, again not playing the hand at all is your best bet.

And in the long run will save you lots of money.
 
Four Dogs

Four Dogs

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C'mon Champ, the blinds are low, middle position. You never play a trash hand? Unless you want a fold fest everytime you enter a pot, you've got to mix it up at least a little. Don't you think?
 
RammerJammer

RammerJammer

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The only two cents I have to throw in here are courtesy of T.J. Cloutier:

"The general rule is: If you wouldn't play any two cards unsuited, you should not play them suited. Of course, there are a few exceptions. For example, if several players have trailed into an unraised pot and you are on the button with K-small suited, you might call in the hope of flopping the big flush. You never would call a raise, however. And you wouldn't play it without at least one big card, because even if you flop the flush, you're in danger of being outkicked on the turn or river.

"With these types of cards, your decision always comes on the flop. Hit & play. Miss & muck. Get in cheap so you can get out cheap, or don't get in at all. I recommend the latter."

-- from "Championship No-Limit & Pot-Limit Hold 'Em"

And, by the way, gjshand, your posted hand is a really great example of the pitfalls of the unraised pot. Two opponents four-flushed on the flop. I personally wouldn't have called your 240-chip bet on a draw (and the guy with Jack high was an idiot to do so), but you can't fault the Ace-high flush draw for staying in. One of the best bets in hold 'em is being four-flushed on the flop. The odds are only 1.85-to-1 against hitting the flush on the turn or river.

The one criticism I have is your choice to call the $100 bet on the turn, rather than folding or raising big. If you don't believe your hand is good enough at that point to raise with, it's probably not good enough to call with. You would have to consider that one or both of your opponents has made their spade flush, and you need a full house or quad fours to beat them out. That's only 10 outs total, and 6 of them endanger your hand by possibly creating a bigger boat than the fours-over. Good for you for getting out on the river and saving a big hit, but you cost yourself an extra 100 chips by sitting on the fence on the turn. In my opinion, that was the proper jumping off point.
 
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