How would you have played this hand

[peaceofcoke]

Hi CChaters,
The hand went like this,
UTG raised x2.2 UTG+1 called, me in Hijack called with QJo and BB called.
pot 10.5, F-3QQ. BB checked, UTG as well, UTG+1 bets x4 I raised to 8 BB+UTG fold UTG+1 reraised 16 I called.
T-3QQ3, UTG+1 bets 20 I called.
R-3QQ36 he went all in, he has me covered since PF he was 126BB and me 95BB.
He has 33 I have a boat.
What did I do wrong, I didnt want to 3bet PF to 7.5 because of my position. Also, that guy played several tournaments against me and in my notes I marked him as Aggro loose.

 

[toots babos]

Fold preflop.

 

[TheHulk7]

Easy fold pre. UTG open and UTG 1 called, that's pretty strong range and you are very often dominated. As played you don't need to raise such flops.

 

[perrywh]

Fold pre!

 

[partz]

thats an easy fold tho!

 

[300HPGOD]

I dont think I would be calling pre flop here as others have said but you are deep and it is a 2.2x raise so there can be a case made to make the call. I doubt anyone will squeeze in the hand because UTG raised and UTG+1 called so squeezers are usually deterred by that. You probably already know but I will reiterate that you are calling here knowing you are behind. You call here for implied odds of flopping some huge hand the same way you would call here if you had 66. A chance 66 is behind already here but you would call hoping to hit a set.

Since you are calling only to flop a big hand, when you flop that big hand you have to go for big value, since that is only way to offset the loss you have over time calling with inferior hands. I would raise larger than you did on the flop if you are going to raise (irrelevant in this hand but just saying) but once I get re raised you have to start thinking about what your opponent has. AQ is in play here, its just rare, but you could be beat even on this flop. I am not saying to be scared of it but I would be thinking that there are few times an opponent will re raise me here without Qx or 33. How many Qx's does UTG+1 have that are worse that QJ? Probably none so the more I think of this I dont like this but no way am I folding. When the 3 comes in on the turn I am already thinking chop and not folding that hand even though I know 33 could be out there (really wouldnt expect 33 from UTG+1 give this pre flop action but shows what I know). When the jam comes on the river I know I am probably only chopping but I am still calling and not folding that hand. The hand is just a massive cooler and shows that even though we play the hand for implied odds the reverse implied odds can crush us. Should you generally fold pre there? yes. Terrible call? absolutely not and just a rough rough runout.

 

[Shumkoolie]

You're very deep-stacked here, and folding is certainly fine here, and probably the play you should make almost every time (I probably do fold most of the time). But, an argument could be made for 3 betting big here. There's just over 5 blinds in the pot when it got to you, and taking that into consideration, if you were to 3-bet here, you should make it 10-11bbs. There's dead money here, and as you said, you were facing a LAG player, their overcall at this stack depth should narrow their range to pocket pairs a good enough portion of the time that if you're going to commit chips to the pot, you want to charge them to see a flop.

You mentioned not wanting to 3bet to 7.5, and I agree, but the biggest reason for that is that with such deep stacks, you're not going to drive away people with that small a 3 bet.


Best case scenario, everybody folds, you pick up 5 blinds. Worst case scenario, you play a hand in position against one opponent, or someone 4bets you off your hand. But you do pick up a read if that happens as well.

Best option - fold
Second best option - 3bet
Worst option - call (if let's say you had AJ suited, then a call would be perfectly fine, but QJo is not a hand you want to call with).

 

[fundiver199]

Maybe a moderator can move this to tournament hand analysis?

Preflop
The issue with making this casual call preflop is, your hand is totally dominated by the UTG range and even the UTG+1 calling range. UTG will have hands like AA, KK, QQ, JJ, AK, AQ, AJ, KQ, KJ, and UTG+1 will also have the same hands except maybe QQ+. But they will rarely if ever have QT, Q9, JT or J9. So even when you flop top pair, you are often going to be either outkicked or against an overpair. They will also both have small to medium pairs, that might flop a set, when you flop top pair. So in short your hand has poor equity against their ranges, and it also suffer from, what is known as reverse implied odds being very likely to flop an expensive second best hand, that sucks you in.

Flop
You flopped trips, which is pretty much the best thing, you could hope for, and UTG+1 bets out, after UTG had checked. If this was a rainbow board, its very much a way ahead way behind situation. Either someone have AQ, KQ or 33, and then you are totally f..... Or they dont have any of these hands, and then they are drawing nearly dead. So in that situation I would just call to keep more of those hands in the pot, that are drawing nearly dead. And also to avoid, what happened, which is, that you got 3-bet by one of the few possible better hands.

If there was a flushdraw on board, I would be more inclined to raise, but then I would go for a bigger sizing. When you min-click it back, they are making very few if any mistakes, and you dont even get a lot of value from for instance a flushdraw, since they are getting great odds to call and try to draw out on you. This also boils back to preflop and the fact, they dont have QT or Q9. They either have a very weak hand, which will not play a big pot, a flushdraw if possible, or they have you beat.

Turn
One of the best card in the deck for you, since now you spilt the pot with AQ and KQ, and there is only 1 combo of 33 left, they can have. There is really no point in raising in position, as it just takes away their chance to bluff the river. So I like your decision to just call.

River
Snap calling this jam. Most of the time you split the pot with the last Q, or they might even be bluffing.

Results
Super cooler situation on the turn and river, and nothing you can do at this point. Everyone is going broke with QX on QQ336, when their opponent shows up with 33 or a very unlikely Q6. However the way, you played preflop and flop, is much more important than this tragic outcome. Classifying your hand correctly and knowing when to fold, call or raise, is key to success in poker, and so is correct betsizing.

 

[Mahdi]

Calling QJo pre is a little loose, but from time to time you can do it
On the flop raise is ridiculously bad, because UTG+1 has there either AQ KQ or 33, very rarely QJ, so you are not getting called by any hands worse than yours unless you bluffed the same way before, which I doubt. The rest part is just a cooler, nothing you could do with it.

PS. maybe, only maybe, you could find fold on the flop, but folding trips is very hard to do, but you really need to think with which hands they can be 3-betting you

 

[karl coakley]

The reason you are getting so many preflop "folds" is when you start with trash you end up with losers a lot.

This hand ends up bad in so many ways. I think 33 is a one off.

What if the board didn't pair and you are up against AQ or KQs? Could you lay down your hand or are going to get stacked?

When you don't play marginal hands in multiple way pots you have easier decisions.

 

[peaceofcoke]

The reason you are getting so many preflop "folds" is when you start with trash you end up with losers a lot.

This hand ends up bad in so many ways. I think 33 is a one off.

What if the board didn't pair and you are up against AQ or KQs? Could you lay down your hand or are going to get stacked?

When you don't play marginal hands in multiple way pots you have easier decisions.

Well, I was going to lay it down if I hadnt hit the flop. but as mentionned in the previous comments, I played it poorly and shouldnt have played it from the beginning

 

[peaceofcoke]

Maybe a moderator can move this to tournament hand analysis?

Preflop
The issue with making this casual call preflop is, your hand is totally dominated by the UTG range and even the UTG+1 calling range. UTG will have hands like AA, KK, QQ, JJ, AK, AQ, AJ, KQ, KJ, and UTG+1 will also have the same hands except maybe QQ+. But they will rarely if ever have QT, Q9, JT or J9. So even when you flop top pair, you are often going to be either outkicked or against an overpair. They will also both have small to medium pairs, that might flop a set, when you flop top pair. So in short your hand has poor equity against their ranges, and it also suffer from, what is known as reverse implied odds being very likely to flop an expensive second best hand, that sucks you in.

Flop
You flopped trips, which is pretty much the best thing, you could hope for, and UTG+1 bets out, after UTG had checked. If this was a rainbow board, its very much a way ahead way behind situation. Either someone have AQ, KQ or 33, and then you are totally f..... Or they dont have any of these hands, and then they are drawing nearly dead. So in that situation I would just call to keep more of those hands in the pot, that are drawing nearly dead. And also to avoid, what happened, which is, that you got 3-bet by one of the few possible better hands.

If there was a flushdraw on board, I would be more inclined to raise, but then I would go for a bigger sizing. When you min-click it back, they are making very few if any mistakes, and you dont even get a lot of value from for instance a flushdraw, since they are getting great odds to call and try to draw out on you. This also boils back to preflop and the fact, they dont have QT or Q9. They either have a very weak hand, which will not play a big pot, a flushdraw if possible, or they have you beat.

Turn
One of the best card in the deck for you, since now you spilt the pot with AQ and KQ, and there is only 1 combo of 33 left, they can have. There is really no point in raising in position, as it just takes away their chance to bluff the river. So I like your decision to just call.

River
Snap calling this jam. Most of the time you split the pot with the last Q, or they might even be bluffing.

Results
Super cooler situation on the turn and river, and nothing you can do at this point. Everyone is going broke with QX on QQ336, when their opponent shows up with 33 or a very unlikely Q6. However the way, you played preflop and flop, is much more important than this tragic outcome. Classifying your hand correctly and knowing when to fold, call or raise, is key to success in poker, and so is correct betsizing.

You know how you get to know your opponents after several hands, that was it, the UTGunners were pretty loose, around 50 PRF and even a higher VPIP , I played very tight, my VPIP, PFR, 3bet were respectively 13,9,3.
The previous hand I had the nuts which I havent played because the same UTG+1 raised with some junk I dont remember whilst I had T9s and the hand ended up with a freaking straight flush. So, I guess I was too mad because they were effing me that I wanted to eff'em and got effed