How do you feel about the raise...

[SteelCtyVitt]

Wondering how you guys feel about the raise...


no real reads, early in a freeroll


Stage #1030264926 Tourney ID 1938714 Holdem Multi Normal Tournament No Limit $40 - 2007-12-26 00:28:26 (ET)
Table: 21 (Real Money) Seat #6 is the dealer
Seat 1 - RKJK1 ($3760 in chips)
Seat 2 - DRPOKER4U ($1470 in chips)
Seat 3 - TAMA007 ($2290 in chips)
Seat 4 - DEACONDAVE54 ($2680 in chips)
Seat 5 - LUCKYGLDFNDR ($3140 in chips)
Seat 6 - JPHENOMENAL ($1480 in chips)
Seat 7 - JACKOLDNR7 ($1430 in chips)
Seat 8 - HEISLUCKY ($1330 in chips)
Seat 9 - PGHVITT21 ($1370 in chips)
JACKOLDNR7 - Posts small blind $20
HEISLUCKY - Posts big blind $40
*** POCKET CARDS ***
Dealt to PGHVITT21 [9s As]
PGHVITT21 - Calls $40
RKJK1 - Calls $40
DRPOKER4U - Folds
TAMA007 - Calls $40
DEACONDAVE54 - Folds
LUCKYGLDFNDR - Folds
JPHENOMENAL - Calls $40
JACKOLDNR7 - Folds
HEISLUCKY - Checks
*** FLOP *** [8c Js 6s]
HEISLUCKY - Checks
PGHVITT21 - Checks
RKJK1 - Bets $40
TAMA007 - Folds
JPHENOMENAL - Calls $40
HEISLUCKY - Calls $40
PGHVITT21 - Raises $300 to $300

 

[KyleJRM]

Way too big. You've got the nut flush and you are even blocking the straight flush with your 9. The only thing that catches up to you is a paired board that turns into a full house or quads. Nobody has given any indication through their betting that they are playing a set or two-pair, so you really can't worry about this.

I hate slowplaying in general, but this case is screaming for it. Bet no bigger than the pot, preferably even smaller, and let them hang themselves.

 

[KyleJRM]

Not to mention, the hand history is wrong. You can't raise a $40 bet $300 to $300.

 

[c9h13no3]

Kyle, he has a draw, not the flush.

I gotta admit, I really don't like the way this hand is played. Here's my advice:

1) You're in early position with a weak ace... eeew. If you insist on playing with it, raise pre-flop so you're not betting against 4 opponents.

2) You are in early position, and you're check raise here is only going to build a big pot. No one is putting down top-pair type hands in a free roll, and against 4 opponents, its likely someone will call your pot-sized checkraise.

3) You were given awesome pot odds (~7:1) to draw to your flush/ace, and you ruined it by raising huge.

4) Raising big grows the pot, and this early in a freeroll, I don't like growing the pot with drawing hands. You can easily get action in the early stages when you have made hands, so why risk it on a 35%-45% draw.

This is just really ugly. 3 other players have shown interest in this pot, so I don't see your raise getting many folds, and thats the only reason I can see for pounding it this hard OOP. And if you just wanted to steal the pot, why didn't you just open up for a pot-sized bet. That way, your opponents at least have less money invested.

So my advice is as follows:

1) Fold this preflop.
2) Raise this from EP if you must play it. This way you're against 1-2 players, and have a better chance of stealing.
3) Just call the tiny bet. It gives you a very cheap turn.
4) If you feel the need to make a steal (passive table), then do it just by betting pot outright, rather than checkraising. I'd only check raise in this position if you have a really great read on 1 or 2 of the villans.

 

[KyleJRM]

[x] I am professional copy editor whose job is to read things close.
[x] I re-read it twice to make sure I was reading the made flush right.
[ ] I got it right after two readings.
[x] There is no such thing as fold equity in a freeroll, so the re-raise was wrong. They are giving odds to draw, so just accept them happily.

 

[c9h13no3]

[ ] I got it right after two readings.

<3

 

[SteelCtyVitt]

ok, re-raise was based on fact that im figuring top pair will call and i have 3 outs on ace and 9 for flush....

anyway hand played out as such

RKJK1 - Calls $260
JPHENOMENAL - Folds
HEISLUCKY - Raises $560 to $600
PGHVITT21 - Calls $300
RKJK1 - Calls $300
*** TURN *** [8c Js 6s] [8s]
HEISLUCKY - Checks
PGHVITT21 - All-In $730
RKJK1 - Folds
HEISLUCKY - All-In $690
PGHVITT21 - returned ($40) : not called
*** RIVER *** [8c Js 6s 8s] [7s]
*** SHOW DOWN ***
HEISLUCKY - Shows [Ad Ac] (Two Pair, aces and eights)
PGHVITT21 - Shows [9s As] (Flush, ace high)
PGHVITT21 Collects $3440 from main pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total Pot($3440)
Board [8c Js 6s 8s 7s]
Seat 1: RKJK1 Folded on the TURN
Seat 2: DRPOKER4U Folded on the POCKET CARDS
Seat 3: TAMA007 Folded on the FLOP
Seat 4: DEACONDAVE54 Folded on the POCKET CARDS
Seat 5: LUCKYGLDFNDR Folded on the POCKET CARDS
Seat 6: JPHENOMENAL (dealer) Folded on the FLOP
Seat 7: JACKOLDNR7 (small blind) Folded on the POCKET CARDS
Seat 8: HEISLUCKY (big blind) HI:lost with Two Pair, aces and eights [Ad Ac - P:Ad,P:Ac,B:8s,B:8c,B:Js]
Seat 9: PGHVITT21 won Total ($3440) All-In HI$3440) with Flush, ace high [9s As - P:As,B:Js,P:9s,B:8s,B:7s]

 

[SteelCtyVitt]

in retrospect I probably believe the play was bad but I lucked out...

 

[c9h13no3]

Yeah, the only worse play was villan limping with AA, and not playing them aggressively enough.

Also, why shove your chips in when the board pairs? You could already have been beaten by a full house. Sure, its a freeroll, and folding the nut flush is definately a losing move in the longrun, but next time tread cautiously.

You made the raise as a 2:1 underdog. What if the spade doesn't come on the turn (and odds were only 18% that it would)? The guy with aces/top pair will bet again, and you'll be forced to either play a ~20% draw for your entire stack, or fold away a lot of chips.

 

[SteelCtyVitt]

agreed... bad play that worked out all around...


my question is though...my re-raise (although it was too large) is still something I like. Nevermind I dont