high pocket pairs

V

Vicious_Machine

Guest
How should i play these? Like later on in a game

Cause i remember one tournament i had Q-Q, and i went all-in, and everybody folded, and then maybe 6-7 hands later, i had K-K, so i didnt want to just go all-in and waste it. So i think i tripled to bet or something, and two people called me. Flop came 4-7-10 (or something close to that, they were low cards, so no flush draw, maybe straight draw but who would call triple bet with 8-9 right??)

anyway, i move all in here, both call me, one guy had pocket 8s, other guy had 4-Q
as luck would have it turn was 4, and last card was 2 or 3 (something low)


what exactly did i do wrong here? i mean, this was like a 600+ people tournament, i think at that about 200 people left, i was in bottom 20, and top 27 placed in money, so i really needed a double up. Thats why i pushed all-in. Any suggestions on what to do differently next time? I cant really push all-in and waste K-K just stealing blinds (or min call bet)
 
Grumbledook

Grumbledook

Guest
its better to be consistant with what you do

for instance after a break in one tournament I was getting a bit behind, so I went all in first hand back, there was one raise before hand but they all folded round and I stole the blinds and the raise.

Next hand I got ace rag so I went all in again and everyone folded.

Next hand I went all in again got 2 callers this time but I had AA this time and then tripled up.

Now cause I had gone all in 3 hands in a row people weren't to know if I had good cards or not.

Now I wouldn't recommend that as a course of play, it was just an example in one tournament.

The problem you get with letting people see flops, is that they can make a hand against you. Then if you go all in at this point, well you trapped yourself. From the sounds of it though not sure how big the blinds were to the average stack but a guy calling with Q4 makes the raise not sound as thought it was large enough.

Without the specifics its hard to tell and as always with poker there is no one right answer
 
tinivy

tinivy

Guest
Pocket Cards

Myself, I don't like pocket pairs, I always get beat if I go in by over cards or with someone getting a miracle straight or flush, what I would suggest is either go all in before the flop, if they fold they fold at least you got the blinds, and that is better then losing the hand, or you could bet a little higher before the flop if it doesn't help you and there is nothing over what you have bet big like you said you did, like 3 or 4 times the bet and if someone raises you go with your gut, but I wouldn't go all in, see what the turn has to offer if it helps then I would go in, if it is still lower then what you have and there are no chances of straights or flushes then I would come back with a strong bet and if you are raised I would try going all in then, it usually works for me, but I have run into people that you can't shake and have no reason fishing for cards at the bets you are throwing out, but still end up catching to beat you, that is when it is really hard to know what to do, the main thing is to stick to your gut, it really helps me a lot, and watch the tables good, you can kinda get a feel for the way the people play certains hands and it will help you determine what to do, if you know they are someone who fishes a lot it is better to go all in on them and if luck is on their side then oh well, if you notice they sit out a lot and when they do play they win with good hands then I would be carefull, but like I said that is where the guts come in. I guess I am done rambling, and hope you can make since of what I have said lol.
 
A

achatter

Rising Star
You were not lucky

You got all your chips in, with 2 callers and the odds big in your favor (you were better than 3 to 1 to win). The only thing wrong was your luck.

Last week I had AT of clubs. The flop was 4,7,K-all clubs.
Before I bet anything there were two people betting, one person betting 500, (the blinds were 25/50 with 200 in the pot) and the next person raised to 1500, which would put me all in.
Is there anyone that would not call?
The turn was a K and the river a 7, so the guy that put me all in with his K 8 off suit won a nice pot, and knocked me out of the tournament.
Should I not have called? That would be silly. If I can't call an all in bet with the nut flush after the flop, why play at all. It's just part of the game that others at times get very lucky.
 
G

great_m0nkey

Guest
if you always go in with the better hand you will win more than you lose thats what i always say...maybe there is 2 diamonds on flop and maybe you do think they have 2 diamonds in hand...they have nothing right now...odds are50/50? not really because at least 4/13 of that suit are gone and theres several cards we cant see, it is all lucka nd to win some tourneys you need luck but the bottom line is always play the better hand and you will come out ahead in the long run!


Peace
dustin
 
P

Pokerman

Guest
Well, I have troubles with poketpairs! I have no clue what todo. If I have an agressive table I will move allin. But if I have a conservative table ill slow play! Hope this helps!
 
D

digihhhballz

Guest
ahhhhhhhhhh

yea to the first guy i feel ya man...sometimes you either gotta have the money to raise ppl out if the flop is shown and you have a KK or AA and someone might have a chance by making a pair or a nice draw....you gotta raise it high enough for no one to call...if they do on a hard draw and win it's just plain bad luck and a good poker player online usually wouldn't call an all in with a low pair lol...but who knows sometimes...

otherwise u should just go all in with kk aa qq...if someone calls and hits their cards it wasn't meant to be....but it seriously is not a bad play...there is still SOME luck to this game remember....

like i played a tourn the other day and was in last position to raise with AA.....
i went all in since i went all in the hand before and someone called me and i won and i was just moved to this table so it was just luck if they call my bluff not knowing how i play....but...

the next guy calls my all in and has 99....heh
goes around 7 ppl to the guy before me and he calls too!!!?
cards are flipped he has KK

my AA vs KK vs 88.....flop is card, card, 8, card, nother no help card on riv and he tripled up....

nothing y ou can do sometimes and it sucks....i was so pissed even tho it was free ....off of FFP's

but i'll live heh...just another story to tell my poker buddies lol

peace

Digi
 
S

Schleiff

Guest
Id keep any pocket pair just to check the flop. If your raised extremely high before i usually dont callw / anyhting less than TT. If u dont hit a set or higher cards hit the board i usually fold. Your not going to keep 66 on a 3 k q flop. :/
 
D

donvic

Rock Star
Vicious_Machine said:
How should i play these? Like later on in a game

Cause i remember one tournament i had Q-Q, and i went all-in, and everybody folded, and then maybe 6-7 hands later, i had K-K, so i didnt want to just go all-in and waste it. So i think i tripled to bet or something, and two people called me. Flop came 4-7-10 (or something close to that, they were low cards, so no flush draw, maybe straight draw but who would call triple bet with 8-9 right??)

anyway, i move all in here, both call me, one guy had pocket 8s, other guy had 4-Q
as luck would have it turn was 4, and last card was 2 or 3 (something low)


what exactly did i do wrong here? i mean, this was like a 600+ people tournament, i think at that about 200 people left, i was in bottom 20, and top 27 placed in money, so i really needed a double up. Thats why i pushed all-in. Any suggestions on what to do differently next time? I cant really push all-in and waste K-K just stealing blinds (or min call bet)
vm,

i think you played it right.

you just lost this one.

you were the favorite and had the odds.

dv
 
D

disguised123

Rising Star
You don't always have to go all in preflop with pocket pairs because obviosuly they arent invincible, however, the most imortant thing is to never slowplay them cause then u run the risk of letting others hit better hands
 
J

Jman8907

Rising Star
Never slow play AA or KK because they are the two hardest hands to get away from or fold
 
C

chicubs1616

Guest
If you hold AA or KK, always raise or re-raise preflop. If no one has bet, raise to 3 to 4 times the size of the big blind. If there are a couple of limpers add 1X the big blind to your raise. If re-raised, push more chips into the pot. With QQ, be careful preflop, you want to raise, but a massive re-raise from a tight player could mean he has KK or AA or even AK (coin flip situation). Pocket J's are very dangerous. They might seem like a good hand but they are only small favorites over a dinky KQ offsuit. Also, if you are called with JJ. And a A,K,or Q hits the flop, you could be done for. Pocket pairs should not make or break your game. Any pair from 10-10 down to 6-6 should be played in certain circumstances: no one has yet raised the pot and you are in late position. Also, do not call large re-raises with smaller pocket pairs unless you are up against a very short stack or are shorthanded at the final table (which probably cannot be said of the people who already posted in this thread). Pocket pairs from 6-6 to 2-2 should be folded if their is any preflop raise unless in the circumstances stated above. These hands should be dealt with caution and I usually limp in with these type of hands, but if someone comes ovber the top, I usually muck them. With any pocket pair from 8's to 2's, there is a very good probablity that a high card hits the flop, or you are up against a higher pair. Remember, there are only two cards left in the deck to hit trips. Playing low pocket pairs consistently is not a good way to expect to win money.
 
M

mastercater7

Guest
First thing: Never play like other people. Advice is good, but always go with what you think at first. Istincts will almost always lead you in the right direction. Also do not base ur plays on what people say here. Analyze how loose or tight the table is. One thing you also have to remember about online poker is that most people on it are horrible and will play crap and win. I personally always raise ALOT with good hands.
 
J

JonSherwood

Guest
disguised123 said:
You don't always have to go all in preflop with pocket pairs because obviosuly they arent invincible, however, the most imortant thing is to never slowplay them cause then u run the risk of letting others hit better hands
That's one thing I've really learned out of all my time playing. Just thought I'd remention that.

I don't think you did anything wrong though. you played the cards well. Maybe your raise wasn't big enough. Generally with a high pocket pair, say above J's, I'd definitely raise well preflop to try and weed out the 7-8's and suited cards, and once you see the flop, if you hit you can bet like that, and if you don't depending on what position your in you can try and act like you hit depending on what the other players did. ALways try and protect that hand though. Remember, it's better to win blinds than nothing at all.


Jon
 
P

pokercece

Guest
Pocket pairs

Hi all,

I used to get so excited about pocket js, ks and As. But it seems as if they always get beat out for me. I'll be winning then that river just kills me. So I often wondered about that too. Should you go all in right off the bat? Thing is I tried few times and it's worked couple times - but more often than not, it bombed. So that's pretty much the question I've been struggling with here lately, the darn if you do, darn if you don't situation. If I do raise or go all in. some courageous soul bets. I lose cause they catch two pairs. If I don't raise, slow play, someone catches me on the turn or river. Then there's the issue of if you dont get the 3rd J, A or whatever for trips - the others have better chance of getting their two pairs or straights. If double numbers come up that don't belong to you - sure they could give you two pair, but maybe someone else their trips. Too, I have also noticed that some just won't fold. They'll bet on anything. I don't know if it's because they've been bluffed out of big pots before or if they're just that curious to see what you have. Perhaps this is their way of learning how/what you play. Still, if they lose, boy that's an expensive lesson. Anyway, I often wonder what I'm doing wrong in those cases.

In my opinion, tread lightly with those pockets unless there's no way in the world they can be beat. How do we tell this? I'm a newbie, but all the experts say and even here(probably some experts here too) it's said watch the table, read the cards well, notice betting habits and sometimes you can just feel the cards. Then other times it is just one big ole toss up with luck. I'd like to find the perfect formula/strategy, but it's definitely a work in progress. Good luck at the tables and those wonderful tournaments everyone.

Bye for now:flybye:

PokerCeCe
 
Z

zieba

Guest
Thats the problem with high pockets. They either win you a small pot or lose you a big one. The best thing to remember with high pocket pairs is that they are foldable. In this case you luck was pretty bad, but I like how you played the hand.
 
K

krs20k

Guest
I usally wait a few more cards before i decide if i wanna go all in. i dont wanan risk losing everything
 
W

western_cj

Guest
Vicious_Machine said:
How should i play these? Like later on in a game

Cause i remember one tournament i had Q-Q, and i went all-in, and everybody folded, and then maybe 6-7 hands later, i had K-K, so i didnt want to just go all-in and waste it. So i think i tripled to bet or something, and two people called me. Flop came 4-7-10 (or something close to that, they were low cards, so no flush draw, maybe straight draw but who would call triple bet with 8-9 right??)

anyway, i move all in here, both call me, one guy had pocket 8s, other guy had 4-Q
as luck would have it turn was 4, and last card was 2 or 3 (something low)


what exactly did i do wrong here? i mean, this was like a 600+ people tournament, i think at that about 200 people left, i was in bottom 20, and top 27 placed in money, so i really needed a double up. Thats why i pushed all-in. Any suggestions on what to do differently next time? I cant really push all-in and waste K-K just stealing blinds (or min call bet)
to me it doesnt sound like you did anything wrong you just got unlucky...the guy with the 4 should NOT be calling your triple bet of the blinds let alone your all in...the guy with the eights thought he had the best of it so bad luck for him but even worse luck for you becase that 4 came on the turn...bad beats do happen at the table and you just gotta put it behind you and not go on tilt cuz this is when you lose your money
 
U

Unreadable1

Guest
try not going all in and dont think pocket over cards are the best hand. try odd hand like 10-7 they turn out to be the best winners.;)
 
J

JohnnyB3050

Guest
When you have high pocket pairs....you have to make a large bet pre-flop....ITS AN ABSOLUTE MUST!!!!!
 
J

JohnnyB3050

Guest
You don't want a lot of people drawing against your already made hand. Dont let people see a cheap flop.
 
J

Jhoops180

Guest
When I have high-pocket pairs I like to bet as much as I can and it's nice when they call or in some cases they reraise then I reraise again. But I like Unreadable1' theory
 
J

jde_07

Guest
Im getting the feeling you were short stacked right. and Im guessing the guy with q-4 had a big stack and just seen a possible opportunity to knock somebody else out of the tourney. but it was just pretty much bad luck. The only thing I could tell you is that guy felt like if he hit anything on the flop he was calling all the way down. or just felt you were on 2 over cards and were trying to buy it. I dont know all the details so I couldnt get real in depth on the hand.
 
P

peter1811

Visionary
I think that sometimes it just don't go....

Most of the times you win your high pairs and you have to play time.

How ?

I think that with the time you'll learn it and there is no way to say you have to play them like this or that.

It depends on the rest of the 5 cards .........
 
K

kensteven

Guest
Vicious_Machine said:
How should i play these? Like later on in a game

Cause i remember one tournament i had Q-Q, and i went all-in, and everybody folded, and then maybe 6-7 hands later, i had K-K, so i didnt want to just go all-in and waste it. So i think i tripled to bet or something, and two people called me. Flop came 4-7-10 (or something close to that, they were low cards, so no flush draw, maybe straight draw but who would call triple bet with 8-9 right??)

anyway, i move all in here, both call me, one guy had pocket 8s, other guy had 4-Q
as luck would have it turn was 4, and last card was 2 or 3 (something low)


what exactly did i do wrong here? i mean, this was like a 600+ people tournament, i think at that about 200 people left, i was in bottom 20, and top 27 placed in money, so i really needed a double up. Thats why i pushed all-in. Any suggestions on what to do differently next time? I cant really push all-in and waste K-K just stealing blinds (or min call bet)
ooo later on in a game id deff double the big blind and if i hit the set on the flop id try and check it then see if someone trys to buy the pot on the river and then stick the rerasise on them
 
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