Help with finding the holes in my play...

[cardfetish]

Ok, all you analyzers help me out here. This just happened in the CC tourney on UB. One guy said it was my own fault for min raising the whole way. I believe the raise on the turn should have sent him packing (if he didn't have a piece of the flop) or all in (if he did).
Hand #52018723-3 at PrivCCW7pm-019 (No Limit tournament Hold'em)
Started at 26/Mar/08 19:04:24

rodpoker is at seat 0 with 1500.
Paddy_Whacked is at seat 1 with 1500.
Houserocker is at seat 2 with 1500.
9BALL is at seat 3 with 2055.
foldenthenuts is at seat 4 with 940.
captainanddew is at seat 5 with 1505.
Vandalar is at seat 6 with 1500.
Milfoil742 is at seat 7 with 1500.
YumboltKing is at seat 8 with 1500.
bubby1298 is at seat 9 with 1500.
The button is at seat 4.

captainanddew posts the small blind of 5.
Vandalar posts the big blind of 10.
rodpoker: -- --
Paddy_Whacked: -- --
Houserocker: -- --
9BALL: Jc Jd
foldenthenuts: -- --
captainanddew: -- --
Vandalar: -- --
Milfoil742: -- --
YumboltKing: -- --
bubby1298: -- --
Pre-flop:

Milfoil742 folds. YumboltKing folds. bubby1298
folds. rodpoker raises to 35. Paddy_Whacked folds.
Houserocker folds. 9BALL calls. foldenthenuts
folds. captainanddew calls. Vandalar folds.
Flop (board: 6h 4s 4d):

captainanddew checks. rodpoker bets 115. 9BALL
raises to 230. captainanddew folds. rodpoker calls.

Turn (board: 6h 4s 4d 8h):

rodpoker bets 575. 9BALL raises to 1150. rodpoker
calls.
River (board: 6h 4s 4d 8h Qh):

rodpoker goes all-in for 85. 9BALL calls.
Tournament all-in showdown -- players show:

rodpoker shows Qc Ac.
9BALL shows Jc Jd.


Showdown:

rodpoker has Qc Ac 4s 4d Qh: two pair, queens and fours.
9BALL has Jc Jd 4s 4d Qh: two pair, jacks and fours.

Hand #52018723-3 Summary:

No rake is taken for this hand.
rodpoker wins 3045 with two pair, queens and fours.

 

[switch0723]

firstly, wow ultimate bets hh sucks

secondly, this is the kinds thing chuck wanted a section for

thirdly, dont post results

ok now to analyze. Im going to treat this as if it wasnt a freeroll donk and that i hadnt seen the results.

Id prefer to see a 3 bet preflop since with blinds this small, we want to be building the pot, but we can also still get away from the hand. So 3 bet preflop to about 100

On the flop, i don't see much point in raising. By raising we arent going to get anymore action from a,k, a,q , a,j, k,j, k,q and basically the entire raising range except for pp's. Id rather see a call to allow all those a,k, a,q, type hands a chance to double barrell into us.

As played i push all in on the turn, since i doubt overcards would triple barrel the river, so we may aswell push them out of the hand now and take down the pot or get action from an underpair.

Without any reads, we expect to go broke here to any 4 or an overpair

 

[cardfetish]

Sorry, This was my first HH anaylsis. I will know better in the next one. I appreciate your comments and advice.

 

[switch0723]

^^^ No worries, its just by posting results, people become results orientated and just think, you have to fold it is obvious villain has XX, and dont really analyse the hand.

Also next time, posting reads/stats on players can be very helpful

 

[robwhufc]

rodpoker goes all-in for 85. 9BALL calls.

Fold here, seriously what are you beating?

(joking!).

Reality is, by hook or by crook you got (virtually) all of the money in pre-river, and got 6 outed. There are a number of different ways to do that, but the end result is the same, so you can ignore the person who said it was your own fault. 38 of the remaining unseen cards win you the pot, 6 of the unseen cards give him the pot, long term that's a better result than getting him to fold halfway through the hand, and winning a lot less.

I don't like the min raise though. Fair enough if you are trying to feign weakness and induce a bluff, but it looks like you've got a lot of strength to me. I think your opponent played poorly (and as happens nowadays, got nicely rewarded for doing so).

 

[cardfetish]

Fold here, seriously what are you beating?

(joking!).

Reality is, by hook or by crook you got (virtually) all of the money in pre-river, and got 6 outed. There are a number of different ways to do that, but the end result is the same, so you can ignore the person who said it was your own fault. 38 of the remaining unseen cards win you the pot, 6 of the unseen cards give him the pot, long term that's a better result than getting him to fold halfway through the hand, and winning a lot less.

I don't like the min raise though. Fair enough if you are trying to feign weakness and induce a bluff, but it looks like you've got a lot of strength to me. I think your opponent played poorly (and as happens nowadays, got nicely rewarded for doing so).

thanks for the re-assuring comments, I really felt that the raise on the turn would have been sufficent enough. When he called, I put him on a larger PP or 2 pair. I knew I had enough to cover him and still have enough chips to survive if he was limping a good hand. I really did have him pegged for a weak ace by his bets. I probably should have raised more pre-flop, but J's have not been good to me in the past. I need to break that stigma.

 

[dj11]

You have to remember that there are only 3 ways to play JJ and all of them are wrong. Fold? wrong! Call? wrong! Raise? wrong!

While there is more humor than truth in that, it is the problem with JJ. JJ will often be the best hand out there, but it is sooo beatable! Overcards have this nasty tendency to hit, 60% of the time! Bigger pairs obviously. When you don't raise authoritatively even connectors look good .

The best of the 3 bad options would normally be a good healthy raise preflop. When the flop is low, like here an even healthier raise is demanded. YOU DO NOT WANT TO BE SMOOTH PLAYING JJ!

OK, you did good with the turn bet , and found the fish. That my friend is poker. So, IMO, the only thing u did questionably is the pf call.

Why did he call? Possibly it has something to do with your only calling PF. He thinks you don't have much, as you didn't bet (don't count a check or a limp as a bet). The difference in his perception, had u raised pf, is enormous. He would have had to give credence that you either had a big pair, or hit the 4 or a set, and unless he is/was brain dead, would have likely folded to your shove. This would fit the 'story' of the hand.

All that said, it was a freeroll, and more than anything, that should tell the bigger story.

 

[cardfetish]

OK, you did good with the turn bet , and found the fish. That my friend is poker. So, IMO, the only thing u did questionably is the pf call.

Why did he call? Possibly it has something to do with your only calling PF. He thinks you don't have much, as you didn't bet (don't count a check or a limp as a bet). The difference in his perception, had u raised pf, is enormous. He would have had to give credence that you either had a big pair, or hit the 4 or a set, and unless he is/was brain dead, would have likely folded to your shove. This would fit the 'story' of the hand.

All that said, it was a freeroll, and more than anything, that should tell the bigger story.

It was a freeroll, but it was a CC freeroll and I expected to have at least some decent players. I know we still get FRW's and donkeys that can't play a lick. After the listening to other players comments about it being my own fault, I began to wonder what went wrong. That's why I posted it up so I could get some feedback, I don't want to make the same mistakes in a real money situation. I thank everyone for their time in reviewing my rookie play...

 

[NineLions]

It was a freeroll, but it was a CC freeroll and I expected to have at least some decent players.

Nah, don't put much too much faith in that expectation.


Play quality gets better later on, but that'll happen with many freerolls, not just the CC ones.

A lot of CC regulars that play these (myself included) play much differently in freerolls than otherwise for two reasons; 1) because the skill level is low you can accumulate a lot of chips fast with risky plays that you wouldn't make normally, and 2) it's a freeroll so I don't pay close attention to what's going on unless I recognize someone at my table.


In a freeroll, second hand in with JJ, I'm shoving this to the preflop raise in front of me.

In a regular tournament, I'm still reraising the raise preflop, and trying to get all the money in on the low flop.

Just my 0.02.