getting away from a hand

riverboatrat

riverboatrat

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I played in a live tourney yesterday, the player to my immediate left was a bit loose and often reraised with hands like j10 suited, aq off and even 56 suited.

This was still early in the game as it had only been running for about an hour when this happened. Everyone at my table was pretty much average stacked, no big stacks and no small stacks.

The player to my left had probably about 2000 chips more than me.

Blinds were 100/200 , I had 7000 chips.

I pick up ace king off AsKh in middle position, he was one off cut off, the pot was as yet unopened.


I raised to 4 x bb, he reraises me to 1500.

I flat call and the flop comes king high all spades, so I am sitting with tptk and the nut flush draw.

I check to him, he pauses for a bit then bets 1500, which was less than half the pot.

I reckon I am winning here, even if he had some kind of a funky hand, I always had the draw to back me up so I reraise all in and he instacalls with pocket kings, turns a boat and I am sent packing.

How do you get away from this kind of a situation or was I just unlucky and just need to accept it?

Did I play the hand wrong ?
 
pantin007

pantin007

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i probably stack off in that situation as well seeing that he is a very loose player, i think u played it correctly
 
dj11

dj11

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Paint the picture in your mind and the caption will always read

"That's Poker!"

You know that if you don't get it all in, he's gonna figure a way to get all your chips here, and succeed.
 
Pothole

Pothole

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Have to agree with Pantin on this one, the nut flush draw was a kinda insurance that even if hit wouldn't have helped. A simple case of bad timing, or bad luck whichever you prefer.
 
blankoblanco

blankoblanco

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you're never getting away there. also, given description i 4bet shove preflop
 
F

feitr

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I would gladly shove TPTK + nut flush draw vs a loose player everytime.
 
D

DukeDrew

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Harrington quote of the day: "Player C turns over <KK> and scoops the pot with <Kings> full. We are unhappy."

You've pegged the guy as loose aggressive, reraising with JTs and 56s. I wouldn't be able to get away from it. You're thinking 35% at turn for a nut flush, and you've got TPTK. *shrug*
 
ythelongface

ythelongface

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i dont see as you could have gotten away from this one. you were dealt the kind of hand you want against a loose player. he just got lucky. it seems to happen that way more than it should. you fold, fold, fold, and then when you get a hand they get a bigger one. just unfortunate timing.
 
buckster436

buckster436

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same thing happened to me in yesterdays bodog buyin game,, i had A K,, flop came K clubs & 2 other clubs, joker bet and i pushed allin, i know joker bluffs sometime, well he had 2 clubs in his hand and i was out, i should have just called his bet and seen another card, which was another club, with 4 clubs on the board i probally would have folded, but it was my fault for getting greedy,lol;) i wanted all his chips, instead he got all mine,lol:D buck:D
 
iMaGiN.

iMaGiN.

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You don't need to get away from this hand in this position. In the long run, it will be much more profitable for you the way you played it, he just got lucky.
 
J

jballer20

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you got unlucky the only way you really can throw that hand away is if you have a good read or tell on him
 
S

switch0723

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Against someone as loose as villain, i have no problem getting it all in pre flop with a,k.

As played however, you should never be folding tptk with nut flush draw on the flop against a loose player
 
nevadanick

nevadanick

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How do you get away from this kind of a situation or was I just unlucky and just need to accept it?

Did I play the hand wrong ?

Just the fact that you asked the question above leaves room to ponder how you feel about No Limit Holdem.

All the replies so far have been that it was the right moves, or should have been even more aggressive on your part. So, with that in mind, here goes the Minority Report....

Villain plays Smith & Wesson poker. Ever see the security sign that reads: "Protected by Smith & Wesson 3 nights a week. You guess which 3"? Villain has a solid hand (maybe) 3 out of every 7 hands he plays. THIS was one of them - against your TPTK.

He had 9k and you had 7k. After showdown, he had 16k and you were looking for a seat at the bar. He gave you a chance to play limit poker in a no limit tourney. I am admittedly a limit player and would have called his 1.5k flop bet, to see another card. If I had to fold after the turn, I would still have over 1/2 my stack (and a seat at the table). You did say he drew his boat on the turn, which means (to me) that I was now facing a paired board with 2 pair, top kick and still just a draw.

Maybe I'm a minority in this too, but imo, AKo is commonly overvalued and overbet, live and online.

Being a live tourney, it's unlikely there was another one starting in 3 minutes. This isn't a case of multi-tabling online and playing nothing but math poker with a touch of Lady Luck with 97% of your BR behind you. You decided to 'bet the farm' - all-in or all-out. It's JUST ME, but my tourney life playing live is more important than trusting Lady Luck against what has already proven to be a Lukbox (or he wouldn't have a 9k stack). Let someone else play Smith & Wesson with him.

Granted - tourneys are about accumulating chips. They are also about survival. No Limit Holdem is a 'risk taking' game. Only YOU can decide when the hopeful result is worth the risk.

I keep a separate BR for my local live tourney play here. My own strategy is playing a hybrid limit/no limit game, and I still have a positive ROI.

If you are happy betting the farm on TPTK, by all means, do so. I prefer to see more cards and then decide whether I want to be the dog or the hydrant.
 
Merlin333

Merlin333

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Maybe I'm busted too

I too am likely busted in that situation. When I look over my hand history it seems that the times I've won tough games I had several or at least one situation like this where I FOLDED. For the way I play it's a delicate balance between being aggressive/getting out of the way - a proper fold has probably won me more games than an aggressive play.

I notice you mentioned the timing between playing (pauses, instacall) I wonder how many players are influenced by the oppositions timing online? I place minimal attention timing online or attribute it to things like "ok they're taking a long time - that means they're weak or deeply considering....". I , more often, believe it to mean "I'm getting a ham sandwich, answering the phone, writing a blog.etc." rather than an indication about their play. I sometimes get the feeling that many online players use timing just trying to be dramatic - lol...

Merlin333 :cool:
 
S

sin2win

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all that said and i still feel like a very bad situation to get away from... Mainly because of the style of play he was showing. Maybe a call on the turn inmstead of the reraise but then ure still pretty lost in the hand and face another tough decision on the river... A loose player could easily have KQ or even K10 and raise and try to get someone of their hand...
 
S

sliver101

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such is poker another time he mighta had nuthin given u had him pegged as loose an given ur hand very little u could do
 
P

p0K35

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Some very good posts, and some very good points, but I have some questions...

I raised to 4 x bb, he reraises me to 1500.

If the blinds are 100/200, your raise would be 800, thus they would need to reraise a min of 1600, or is that 1500 'on top'? Not really important...

You claim they are loose and raising preflop, are they doing this on your preflop raises? With just paint and sooted connectors? I could be wrong, but I think they reraising you here is some important info, plus you are OOP...

I flat call and the flop comes king high all spades, so I am sitting with tptk and the nut flush draw.

I check to him, he pauses for a bit then bets 1500, which was less than half the pot.

I reckon I am winning here, even if he had some kind of a funky hand, I always had the draw to back me up so I reraise all in and he instacalls with pocket kings, turns a boat and I am sent packing.

Before I retort, nevadanick makes some great points. cliff notes: Far bigger problem to overplay AK, than to underplay, even when you flop TPTK...

Humm the check is a nice trappy play with a great hand, and villian makes a great trappy bet with an even better hand. Even if they are a total donk, got to give some credit here.

How do you get away from this kind of a situation or was I just unlucky and just need to accept it?

Did I play the hand wrong ?

Well, you weren't unlucky, you were beat from the beginning, on the flop, at showdown, and lost your stack. The fact they fill up on the turn is really insignificant, as they really had to fade a spade, as that is the only DRAW you had to beat their hand.

How do you get away from that flop? Most seem to think you can't, and maybe you can't. Which is why nevadanick's post is very good.

You get away by check calling until your hand improves, and check folding when the turn pairs the board and kinda, sorta counterfeits your hand, and you still have a decent stack to play???

Sure, tourneys are about accumulating chips, but there is a reason some top pros are very successful at tourneys, called managing pot sizes. You seem to think you have a great hand, with a great draw, and you lose your stack, when you overplay TPTK on a scary flop.

Maybe knowing the results skews my retort, but I think I could have played this hand and folded still having some chips and a tourney life on the turn.

[edit]Ok, ok, before I get crushed here, how do you think villian played the hand?[/edit]
 
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