$Freeroll NLO MTT: Another Lovely Situation with QQ

[naruto_miu]

So It's really late in the game, and I've just been moved to another table.....I've only been here for 5 hands or so, and this situation comes up....I have really no clue what to do....

My Questions are this, Should I rather then Flat the RR Preflop should I just shove here and Hope?
2nd question I understand against 1 player I could just shove him all in, but against 2 it gets alittle harder, so My 2nd question is Should I just have Folded....Because of the simple fact that the Original raiser is still left to act so because of this Rather then lose 120K should I have Just folded?

Last Question is Do we call the A.I Now Or fold?....Also what would you have done in this Case





pokerstars No-Limit Hold'em, 0 Tournament, 6000/12000 Blinds 1200 Ante (8 handed) - PokerStars Hand Converter from HandHistoryConverter.com

UTG+1 (t507199)
MP1 (t45080)
MP2 (t227660)
CO (t25076)
Button (t385886)
SB (t397806)
Hero (BB) (t309324)
UTG (t319611)

Hero's M: 11.21

Preflop: Hero is BB with Q

, Q

3 folds, MP2 bets t48000, 2 folds, SB raises to t120000, Hero calls t108000, MP2 raises to t226460 (All-In), SB raises to t396606 (All-In), 1 fold

 

[JamesDaBear]

I think you're getting your money in good here most of the time if you call both raises. Don't flat though. You still want your hand to end up heads up and the best way to make that happen is to shove. If you were against one player (for example, if either raiser were a short stack), you might flat then. If there was huge (meaning important, not just the $$$ amount) money on the line, you could consider folding... but don't generally flat. If both ended up folding to your shove, you'd be happy with that after the two raises.

As far as question 3 goes... the SB is definitely isolating. If they're playing AA or AK that way, they're making a mistake. The right move for him is to flat and hope you come along. Therefore, you can recoup a lot of the value IF the original raiser happens to have AA, KK or catch, and you still have a chance at a significant sidepot. I'm definitely shoving here with a top 3 hand against players whose ranges are so far wider than that. To consider folding, there would have to be major equity in just sticking around. There just aren't many freerolls like that.

 

[jbbb]

jamjamjamjamjamjamjamjamjamjamjam
About 21BB and QQ in BB, God is good, don't make him angry by wasting this oppertunity.
When you flatcall whats your plan on the flop?
Say the flop was
1) 258
2) 25A
3) JKA
4) Axx

Also you can never fold there after putting 1/3 of your stack in.

 

[tenbob]

Cold calling the 3bet is terrible, folding is better.

Just shove over it though.

 

[bigphatmike]

So It's really late in the game, and I've just been moved to another table.....I've only been here for 5 hands or so, and this situation comes up....I have really no clue what to do....

My Questions are this, Should I rather then Flat the RR Preflop should I just shove here and Hope?
2nd question I understand against 1 player I could just shove him all in, but against 2 it gets alittle harder, so My 2nd question is Should I just have Folded....Because of the simple fact that the Original raiser is still left to act so because of this Rather then lose 120K should I have Just folded?

Last Question is Do we call the A.I Now Or fold?....Also what would you have done in this Case





PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, 0 Tournament, 6000/12000 Blinds 1200 Ante (8 handed) - PokerStars Hand Converter from HandHistoryConverter.com

UTG+1 (t507199)
MP1 (t45080)
MP2 (t227660)
CO (t25076)
Button (t385886)
SB (t397806)
Hero (BB) (t309324)
UTG (t319611)

Hero's M: 11.21

Preflop: Hero is BB with Q

, Q

3 folds, MP2 bets t48000, 2 folds, SB raises to t120000, Hero calls t108000, MP2 raises to t226460 (All-In), SB raises to t396606 (All-In), 1 fold

FLIP FOR IT! haha but actually your prolly right,, its sounds your really deep, its prolly 50 percent its a flip, 25 percent he has you dominated, and 25 that you have him dominated. i would have to agree and shove it through and jam all in and hopefully mp2 folds.. but gl
HOPE THAT HELPS!
TTYL

 

[dj11]

ITM in a freeroll, and you wonder what to do here?

I deduce this by the blind sizes.

Shove PF. It should have looked like this;
Preflop: Hero is BB with Q

, Q

3 folds, MP2 bets t48000, 2 folds, SB raises to t120000, Hero shoves t309324, fold, fold.

What are you waiting for???????? HUH ??????? Shove already!

That was fun....

If I am wrong, and it was the pre-bubble, then a case can be made to fold here (love a detailed discussion of that), but I think I am not wrong and you are ITM.

I would probably shove down to TT, folding 77 and below.

 

[KerouacsDog]

yeah pre-bubble I can reluctantly find a fold here, as you're up against at least an ace, defo pocket pairs, which could be higher than yours. ITM Im shoving this every time even tho Im probably facing AA/KK/AK etc.

 

[jolubman]

I had this situation once but I had pocket kings and we were on the bubble. I folded the kings. When the other two showed, one had pocket aces.

 

[blueskies]

If you were literally right on the bubble and in no danger of not cashing, then I would considering folding KNOWING that the initial raiser would likely call the shove.

Otherwise, it's a nobrainer all in shove pre.

 

[baudib1]

If it's the bubble I'm shoving first.

Tenbob is right though, flatting QQ to a 3-bet OOP is generally bad unless you're like 200 BBs deep. Here, you have 25.

 

[TopDonk]

lol @ folding been better than calling. also how are we oop to the small blind?

 

[JamesDaBear]

lol @ folding been better than calling. also how are we oop to the small blind?

He is OOP to the original raiser. He doesn't close the action... this is what makes flatting with the intention of folding incorrect. It would be different if the original raiser was already all in on his original raise. Then I'd be more willing to call the three-bet and see a flop in position against a small blind that might be just isolating. Probably fold if an A or K hits the flop and he still bets.

 

[naruto_miu]

Cold calling the 3bet is terrible, folding is better.

Just shove over it though.

Ya I don't know exactly why I flatted I assume with the Raise+RR pre that I was Either Up against AK/KK/JJ, and the O.R had something like AK/10s+, So My Intention as Horrible as it may sound was to Flat, Hope For a Relatively Low Flop And/Or Set and then Get the Money in....The Problem with this is If I'm up against AA/KK I'm still Done, so It would've been alot Better to just Open Fold It rather then Cold Call 120K Knowing the O.R is gonna Shove A.I and then the MP2 can then Re shvoe A.I and then I'm just at a loss, So Your 100% Correct in saying it just was Horrible

ITM in a freeroll, and you wonder what to do here?

I deduce this by the blind sizes.

Shove PF. It should have looked like this;
Preflop: Hero is BB with Q

, Q

3 folds, MP2 bets t48000, 2 folds, SB raises to t120000, Hero shoves t309324, fold, fold.

What are you waiting for???????? HUH ??????? Shove already!

That was fun.... (It was Pretty Fun Looking over this part, and I really should've Either RRAI pre or fold it)

If I am wrong, and it was the pre-bubble, then a case can be made to fold here (love a detailed discussion of that), but I think I am not wrong and you are ITM. (Yes I'm in the Money at the moment, and To be Honest, I'd Fold if this wasn't ITM, so that's the only Logical Explanation I can give for my Horrible Flatting Pre with QQ and then Folding)

I would probably shove down to TT, folding 77 and below.

(I don't know about Shoving 10s< In this case, Then To Me That would've been easier Spot Either Fold or Shove, But these are like my Biggest Issues in MTT's JJ+QQ+KK, I can't Fold them nor do I play them Correctly

yeah pre-bubble I can reluctantly find a fold here, as you're up against at least an ace, defo pocket pairs, which could be higher than yours. ITM Im shoving this every time even tho Im probably facing AA/KK/AK etc.

(In this Situation I had Shown I was Correct on the Reads against 1 Player which was the O.R, but the MP2 was where things got Grey for me and I figured it was Either AK/JJ/AQ in there but I really didn't Feel at the time it was AA/KK, but then Again I was sure the O.R had Either JJ+KK+AA so I could'nt Come to a Good decision, I mean I could'nt Bring myself to Shove nor Bring myself to Fold

If it's the bubble I'm shoving first.

Tenbob is right though, flatting QQ to a 3-bet OOP is generally bad unless you're like 200 BBs deep. Here, you have 25.

I learnt the hard way


I just wanted to Thank all for the Input btw, helps me out now more then ever when I find myself in those Situations, BTW if you all wanted to Know O.R had JJ and MP2 had AK and I had QQ and AK on the Flop

 

[Pascal-lf]

easy 4bet shove, if you do misclick flat and they both go all in you call

 

[naruto_miu]

easy 4bet shove, if you do misclick flat and they both go all in you call

LMAO P, That's the Answer to it All? It really is a Simple Answer in the Long Run AK vs QQ vs JJ I should Come out a head more likely so your right

 

[JamesDaBear]

Yeah, kinda. There's some situational elements missing from this hand like where you are in the tournament... and how much do you really care about a mincash and/or building a roll on that site. If you shove over the top of him and OR calls your shove, SB should be folding almost all of the time with AK, but this depends hugely on how much pressure on him there is to fold from factors outside his hand strength. If it's gamble time, he could call with a much wider range than that... which is obviously something you want too.