$Freeroll NLHE MTT Turbo: Final Table - Calling 19BB all in with 22 after RFI?

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emzadii

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Hi Cardschatters,

I'm seeking your input on this recent hand. My apologies for not including the hand replayer because the software didn't provide any (also, software doesn't allow HUD).

Background: Heads-up at final table MTT (4 hours in, 800 entrants). Villain was mostly passive. During heads-up, I started with a 2:1 stack advantage. I've been raising and taking frequently. He's been mostly folding, limp-folding/calling, check-folding, no shove. He won a big pot a few hands prior, so at this point I was only just ahead in chips.

Blinds: 25k/50k (ante 12.5%)
Villain (BB): 19bb behind
Hero (SB): 24bb behind

Hero's hand: 2-2

Preflop:
Hero (SB): Raise 2.5x
Villain (BB): Shove 19bb remaining

Call for the glory :star: or wait for another opportunity :(?
 
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300HPGOD

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If you call here you know you will be flipping at best unless there is a miracle and he has A2. I like being the one who jams and not the one calls (actually Im the one who knocks lol). So my opinion on this hand would be to fold although I totally get calling too. Any pair heads up is strong I just dont like the fact that I have no fold equity since villain is already in and my hand equity is no better than 55% realistically and that is best case. I say fold but its close
 
jaworek1405

jaworek1405

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Hello, I prefer fold 22 in this hand. As you said, opponent seems very passive player. I don't want to risk most of my stack with pocket 22. If you lose this hand, opponent will have almost 40bb in stack and you will down to 5bb. You will have very bad situation if you lose this hand, even opponent is passive. Besides it is turbo tournament and blinds are shorter, you can have very hard situation on 5bb stack. Another situation is when you have very big stak versus your opponent, something like you 19bb and opponent about 5bb, then I think it is worth to risk to call all in with pocket 22. GL :)
 
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fundiver199

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Heads up this is a call, if Villain is 3-betting as often, as he is supposed to. However if he had been "passive", he is probably not, and then it seems reasonable to adjust a little bit and let a hand like this go.
 
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Sidetracked

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I agree with the other posters in this thread. I think, given villain's tendencies so far, that this is a fold.

If the chips are going in with me holding 22, I like to be the one betting, rather than the one calling.
 
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emzadii

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Hi all!

Thank you for your assessment, much appreciated! During game, I did what I thought (instinctively) was a correct decision but, upon reflection, I wasn't sure anymore so that's why I sought help from you all.

I ran the numbers afterwards, giving the passive villain his possible range of pulling this 3bet-shove 19bb, and 22 came out having 44% equity against the range, with pot odds being ~47%.

So 22 is a fold, given the terrible equity and villain's passiveness and that losing would leave me severely shortstacked (5bb) in a turbo, as jaworek1405 pointed out.

Spoiler alert: I ended up calling, he tabled an A8o, and I won the tournament. (Not being result-oriented, for sure, despite I was right on my read that he's doing it with Ace-high holding, so I'd definitely fold 22 in this kinda situation in the future.)

Thank you again, everybody!
 
erik_lima

erik_lima

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It's an easy fold. 22 you are not wining from anything, specially against a passive player. The best situation would be a coin flip, but if you have edge against a passive player, you don't need to coin flip all your chips.

Just be pacient and keep making pressure on then next hands.
 
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fundiver199

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It's an easy fold. 22 you are not wining from anything, specially against a passive player.

Its not that simple, because Hero has already invested 2,5BB, so he is calling 16,5BB to win 38,25BB including the ante. For this reason Hero only need 43% equity to make a break even call. This is very close though, so folding can certainly be the best option, if you feel, you have a skill edge on the opponent.

If on the other hand you are kind of fed up with playing heads up and just want it over, then calling is an equally valid option. For me the latter can often be the case, if I have already spend 5-6 hours playing an MTT, and the Villain is a competent player. For the same reason I also usually accept a deal, when its down to the final two, and again the Villain is not an obvious fish.
 
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1player2

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Hi Cardschatters,

I'm seeking your input on this recent hand. My apologies for not including the hand replayer because the software didn't provide any (also, software doesn't allow HUD).

Background: Heads-up at final table MTT (4 hours in, 800 entrants). Villain was mostly passive. During heads-up, I started with a 2:1 stack advantage. I've been raising and taking frequently. He's been mostly folding, limp-folding/calling, check-folding, no shove. He won a big pot a few hands prior, so at this point I was only just ahead in chips.

Blinds: 25k/50k (ante 12.5%)
Villain (BB): 19bb behind
Hero (SB): 24bb behind

Hero's hand: 2-2

Preflop:
Hero (SB): Raise 2.5x
Villain (BB): Shove 19bb remaining

Call for the glory :star: or wait for another opportunity :(?

Hello,


With 22BB I'll open shove Pocket 6's and up and I'll only call with 8's and up. I'm never calling with 2's unless villian has an insignificant amount of BB. Less than 4 BB would be insignificant in this situation.
 
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emzadii

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Its not that simple, because Hero has already invested 2,5BB, so he is calling 16,5BB to win 38,25BB including the ante. For this reason Hero only need 43% equity to make a break even call. This is very close though, so folding can certainly be the best option, if you feel, you have a skill edge on the opponent.


I did my math slightly wrong. fundiver199 is correct: the pot odds is 43% instead. With a 44% equity against villain's possible shoving range, it is very close. Nevertheless, other factors (villain's passiveness, Hero's skill edge, etc.) would override the call. Thank you again, everybody.
 
Vallet

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I just wanted to say that you were lucky with your opponent. Usually players just push and don't let you play quietly. Maybe he got tired of waiting for better cards or you put a lot of pressure on him. So he put all-in. When I read your first post, I thought that the opponent has a pocket pair or a higher range of cards than it turned out. Happy victory!
 
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ibetmyho

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I would definitely fold this, deuces are a very weak hand to be calling with. A better option would be just to open shove 22 pre flop with 20 bbs, then villain should be folding hands which are going to do very well vs 22.
 
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spr0ck3t

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even with the equity against his range, there's ICM to consider. at best, you're flipping against his range, and it's more likely you're a huge underdog than a huge favorite. if you lose that coin flip, you will probably lose the tournament. do you think that coin flip is your best chance, or do you think you can outplay him with roughly even stack sizes?

I don't think there's anything wrong with thinking a coin flip is your best shot, but ALSO you kept describing him as 'passive'. I'd be cautious labeling the other person who made it to HU with you to an MTT as a bad player out of hand, but if he is a tight/passive player, doesn't a HUGE jam have a lot more big pairs and a lot less junk in it?
 
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fundiver199

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even with the equity against his range, there's ICM to consider.

There is no ICM heads up. To win first price, you need to win all the chips, so each chip has the same value. ICM only exist, when 3 or more players are left, and more than one player gets paid. In that spot you can benefit from other players busting each other, but that is not the case, when its heads up or winner takes all as in for instance 3-handed spins.
 
Matt_Burns88

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This is an easy fold for me. You are at best flipping and given the background you provided, it is more likely you are way behind. It sounds like you had been running him over to this point, so you should definitely side-step this spot and find much more optimal places to stack him.
 
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spr0ck3t

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There is no ICM heads up. To win first price, you need to win all the chips, so each chip has the same value. ICM only exist, when 3 or more players are left, and more than one player gets paid. In that spot you can benefit from other players busting each other, but that is not the case, when its heads up or winner takes all as in for instance 3-handed spins.


my bad, I'm still obviously learning (and towards the beginning of it, at that). I thought ICM came into play HU with the difference in payout for place 1 vs place 2. Like you said though, I think it comes down to if you think you have more of a skill edge than a coin flip (or time, mental processing power left, whatever).
 
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