$Freeroll NLHE MTT Turbo: To cash or to reach the final table.

BoddJonar

BoddJonar

Visionary
Silver Level
Joined
Dec 3, 2013
Total posts
924
Chips
0
Villian Stats (VPIP/PFR/AF): 83/65/70

pokerstars No-Limit Hold'em, 0 Tournament, 1,500/3,000 Blinds 300 Ante (9 handed) - PokerStars Converter Tool from http://www.flopturnriver.com

UTG+1 (t103,638)
MP1 (t36,355)
MP2 (t492,371)
MP3 (t4,572)
Hero (CO) (t116,572)
Button (t46,884)
SB (t19,654)
BB (t50,647)
UTG (t33,429)

Hero's M: 16.19

Preflop: Hero is CO with 10
heart.gif
, A
diamond.gif

3 folds, MP2 raises to t24,000, 1 fold, Hero raises to t116,272 (All-In), 3 folds, MP2 calls t92,272

Flop: (t239,744) 5
heart.gif
, 3
club.gif
, 9
diamond.gif
(2 players, 1 all-in)

Turn: (t239,744) Q
spade.gif
(2 players, 1 all-in)

River: (t239,744) 6
spade.gif
(2 players, 1 all-in)

Total pot: t239,744

Results below:
MP2 had K
diamond.gif
, 3
diamond.gif
(one pair, threes).
Hero had 10
heart.gif
, A
diamond.gif
(high card, Ace).
Outcome: MP2 won t239,744

Yeah, well it's nothing unusual at theese BRM tourneys, but with 141 players left, and I was aiming for the final table, so a double up vs the crazy guy at the table would be perfect.
He had been raising, shoving and picked players off one by one as soon as he got to the table. I managed to double up against him once when my KQ held up against his 39 offsuit lol.
Anyway, since his stats was 83/65/70 over 22 hands I felt AT from the cut-off would be a perfect shove for doubling up, since a mere raise wouldn't scare him off, and would have made me pot commited anyway.

What would you guys do here?
Was my play right or just borderline insane?

Cheers
 
Arjonius

Arjonius

Legend
Silver Level
Joined
Jun 8, 2005
Total posts
3,167
Chips
0
There's no absolute right or wrong here. ATo is obviously ahead of his range, so it comes down to a personal decision whether you're favored enough to risk your tournament when you have a fully playable 34bb stack and seem to be sitting fairly high in the field.

It's obviously more helpful if you can ballpark your odds better; e.g. you can make a better decision if you know whether you're about 3:2 or about 3:1 rather than just knowing you're favored or just knowing your somewhere around the range from 3:2 to 3:1.

The easiest way to improve this ability is to study ranges with a tool like equilab or pokertracker. This isn't fun. It's part of working on your game.

Since I estimate ATo is around 3:2, my inclination would be to look for better spots to put my tournament at risk. With 140+ left, there's still plenty of time for better spots to present themselves.
 
horizon12

horizon12

Legend
Silver Level
Joined
Nov 2, 2013
Total posts
4,126
Chips
0
38 bb this very much for shove stack , easy fold, yes villain look like stealing, but we can not be sure. You have very good stack, and play now marginal hand, not necessary.
 
I

invisile

Enthusiast
Silver Level
Joined
Oct 3, 2013
Total posts
44
Chips
0
I have sometimes played these tournaments and you have a good stack to play so i would fold this, because the blinds get bigger fast and you can pressure the table with this stack and get your stack bigger easily without showdowns. But your play is good to, because if we douple up we can get similar stack than maniac and easily win rest of his stack in future and get the FT average stack what is 500 000, But your question we are always playing for win in this situation, because winner gets like 100x more than the first cash and points in leaderboard if you are registered BRM.
 
R

rumsey182

Rock Star
Silver Level
Joined
Sep 27, 2013
Total posts
432
Chips
0
why are we piling 40BB ever as a 3 bet?

and dear god i was so puzzled by us shoving our 40BB i missed that villain 8 xed it!!!!!!! like holy crap i piling any hand for 40BB here is the nut low of things you could do unless you have exactly AA
 
Last edited:
BoddJonar

BoddJonar

Visionary
Silver Level
Joined
Dec 3, 2013
Total posts
924
Chips
0
why are we piling 40BB ever as a 3 bet?

and dear god i was so puzzled by us shoving our 40BB i missed that villain 8 xed it!!!!!!! like holy crap i piling any hand for 40BB here is the nut low of things you could do unless you have exactly AA

Well I guess it depends. It is a risky move, especially vs that type of player, but I was aiming for a deep finish and a double up before anyone of us where transferred to another table or whatever would be great, since I am ahead of his speculated range and he is likely to pay me off, and he would most of the time with that hand.
But it might be a bit insane with 40bbs I agree with that, since it's plenty of chips and I would make it to the money easily with it. BUT, the final table is what gives both money and points worth counting for and boy would I love being in the top 200 on that leaderboard.
Tbh I would think it trough more next time, but I really cant find a correct answer for this situation. It might sound like an insane act, but is it really if you are aiming to reach the final table?

Cheers
 
R

rumsey182

Rock Star
Silver Level
Joined
Sep 27, 2013
Total posts
432
Chips
0
Well I guess it depends. It is a risky move, especially vs that type of player, but I was aiming for a deep finish and a double up before anyone of us where transferred to another table or whatever would be great, since I am ahead of his speculated range and he is likely to pay me off, and he would most of the time with that hand.
But it might be a bit insane with 40bbs I agree with that, since it's plenty of chips and I would make it to the money easily with it. BUT, the final table is what gives both money and points worth counting for and boy would I love being in the top 200 on that leaderboard.
Tbh I would think it trough more next time, but I really cant find a correct answer for this situation. It might sound like an insane act, but is it really if you are aiming to reach the final table?

Cheers
crazy guy 8xing doesn't mean punt off a big stack here, even 3 bet calling is better if he is a spew bot

your just waaaayyy to deep to shove here
 
Jacki Burkhart

Jacki Burkhart

long winded rambler...
Silver Level
Joined
Oct 12, 2013
Total posts
2,960
Awards
6
Chips
0
I guess the question for me is, what are you trying to achieve by re-raising all in? Do you want him to fold or call? Are you just trying to rain on his parade and gain some table image? Let's define our goals before we look at our options.

If you want a fold; do you think you have fold equity? Is the pot big enough right now to be meaningful enough to your stack to justify the risk? from your description of the guy, it sounds like you expect to be called a high percentage of the time. In that case, I'll wait for a stronger hand, with a bias toward pairs 66+ AK and AQ

Do you want a call? if so, then you rate to be ahead of his range, which is good, but usually you'll only be about 55%...is that good enough for you to risk your tourney life? That is a question only you can answer, some of us have better stomachs for huge flips than others. I tend to avoid flips unless I'm short or outclassed.

Do you just want to send a message and gain some table respect and slow this punk down a bit? if so....how valuable is that to us really? let's not let our egos or frustrations dictate our play. Now, it MIGHT be valuable if you think you are going to be stuck with him for quite a while and you're gonna end up butting heads with him anyways, and meanwhile he's gonna take away all your opportunities to steal...but if you think your table might get broken any time soon, its' best just to avoid the maniac until you have a hand (that is 1 nice thing about live tourneys is it is possible to know if your table is the next 1 or 2 to break).

For me....I would pass on this spot.
 
BoddJonar

BoddJonar

Visionary
Silver Level
Joined
Dec 3, 2013
Total posts
924
Chips
0
I guess the question for me is, what are you trying to achieve by re-raising all in? Do you want him to fold or call? Are you just trying to rain on his parade and gain some table image? Let's define our goals before we look at our options.

If you want a fold; do you think you have fold equity? Is the pot big enough right now to be meaningful enough to your stack to justify the risk? from your description of the guy, it sounds like you expect to be called a high percentage of the time. In that case, I'll wait for a stronger hand, with a bias toward pairs 66+ AK and AQ

Do you want a call? if so, then you rate to be ahead of his range, which is good, but usually you'll only be about 55%...is that good enough for you to risk your tourney life? That is a question only you can answer, some of us have better stomachs for huge flips than others. I tend to avoid flips unless I'm short or outclassed.

Do you just want to send a message and gain some table respect and slow this punk down a bit? if so....how valuable is that to us really? let's not let our egos or frustrations dictate our play. Now, it MIGHT be valuable if you think you are going to be stuck with him for quite a while and you're gonna end up butting heads with him anyways, and meanwhile he's gonna take away all your opportunities to steal...but if you think your table might get broken any time soon, its' best just to avoid the maniac until you have a hand (that is 1 nice thing about live tourneys is it is possible to know if your table is the next 1 or 2 to break).

For me....I would pass on this spot.


Hey! Ultimately I guess I was being angry and wanted to punish him for his annoying playstyle, and I actually figured I would be ahead around 60 % of the time. The blinds actually rockets in theese tourneys so I was looking for a double up to survive to the final table, and I selected that guy... Well, It isn't logic at all when thinking about it now, but man I felt smart back then.

Truth is I was right, but when that deep with a decent stack, I should not put my tournament life on the line like that.

If it happened again, then I would pass also...

Thanks for the answer!

Cheers
 
R

rumsey182

Rock Star
Silver Level
Joined
Sep 27, 2013
Total posts
432
Chips
0
Hey! Ultimately I guess I was being angry and wanted to punish him for his annoying playstyle, and I actually figured I would be ahead around 60 % of the time. The blinds actually rockets in theese tourneys so I was looking for a double up to survive to the final table, and I selected that guy... Well, It isn't logic at all when thinking about it now, but man I felt smart back then.

Truth is I was right, but when that deep with a decent stack, I should not put my tournament life on the line like that.

If it happened again, then I would pass also...

Thanks for the answer!

Cheers
like come on man i was "angry" and wanted to " punish for his annoying play style" wtf kind of reasoning is that? please go read some stuff on mindset this is flawed on so many levels
 
Jacki Burkhart

Jacki Burkhart

long winded rambler...
Silver Level
Joined
Oct 12, 2013
Total posts
2,960
Awards
6
Chips
0
like come on man i was "angry" and wanted to " punish for his annoying play style" wtf kind of reasoning is that? please go read some stuff on mindset this is flawed on so many levels

So, I'd like to go on record that I think a version of this type of "tilt" Happens to all of us from time to time. Chastising the OP does nobody any good. In fact, I admire that he can admit his true (flawed) motivation in the hand. I'm sure we've all spewed chips this way at least once...whether or not we're mature enough to admit it and examine it and learn from it is the difference between plugging a leak, or deluding yourself.

He has chosen not to delude himself, and by being honest he can hopefully recognize the signs of this kind of tilt next time it starts creeping into his game and hopefully he'll have some tips and strategies to deal with it.

Instead of saying "go read some mindset stuff". Can you recommend certain books or articles you've read, or techniques that help you in similar situations?

We're all here (presumably) to improve our game
 
BearPlay

BearPlay

Cardschat Elite
Silver Level
Joined
Jan 15, 2014
Total posts
10,631
Chips
0
So, I'd like to go on record that I think a version of this type of "tilt" Happens to all of us from time to time. Chastising the OP does nobody any good. In fact, I admire that he can admit his true (flawed) motivation in the hand. I'm sure we've all spewed chips this way at least once...whether or not we're mature enough to admit it and examine it and learn from it is the difference between plugging a leak, or deluding yourself.

He has chosen not to delude himself, and by being honest he can hopefully recognize the signs of this kind of tilt next time it starts creeping into his game and hopefully he'll have some tips and strategies to deal with it.

Instead of saying "go read some mindset stuff". Can you recommend certain books or articles you've read, or techniques that help you in similar situations?

We're all here (presumably) to improve our game


You're always the voice of reason and respect, MissJacki. I admire that ;) I, too, admire OP's vulnerability and honesty. We're all human; we've all been there at one time or another and will definitely be there again.
 
R

rumsey182

Rock Star
Silver Level
Joined
Sep 27, 2013
Total posts
432
Chips
0
So, I'd like to go on record that I think a version of this type of "tilt" Happens to all of us from time to time. Chastising the OP does nobody any good. In fact, I admire that he can admit his true (flawed) motivation in the hand. I'm sure we've all spewed chips this way at least once...whether or not we're mature enough to admit it and examine it and learn from it is the difference between plugging a leak, or deluding yourself.

He has chosen not to delude himself, and by being honest he can hopefully recognize the signs of this kind of tilt next time it starts creeping into his game and hopefully he'll have some tips and strategies to deal with it.

Instead of saying "go read some mindset stuff". Can you recommend certain books or articles you've read, or techniques that help you in similar situations?

We're all here (presumably) to improve our game
eight fold path to poker enlightenment on DC, Jared tendler's mental game of poker to start

seriously not trying to be a dick but if you excuse make for people it doesn't push them to fix their flaws i know i can be hard on people here sometimes but it is in the hopes it pushes and motivates them bc every time they play with these flaws it is costing themselves money and holding them back
 
Poker Orifice

Poker Orifice

Fully Tilted
Platinum Level
Joined
Jan 19, 2008
Total posts
25,602
Awards
6
CA
Chips
968
BoddJonar;2293123 What would you guys do here? Was my play right or just borderline insane? Cheers[/QUOTE said:
I would fold pre & not ever think twice about it.

Why take a high variance/risky play vs. a complete idiot who is going to be handing you their chips (in wayyyy better spots)?
Makes zero sense to me.
 
Real Money Poker - Real Money Casinos
Top