I have a hand of 44 on the BB. My stack is 6BB - good pushing hand for me, but:
UTG all-in 12BB.
CO all-in ~ 50BB.
The button had a big stack (200 + BB fold)
What should I call (all-in) or fold?
I decided to fold because I thought that their cards were bigger than mine, and something would come to someone, which happened at their showdown, but later I soon dropped out of the tournament. There are no more good hands to push.
What would you do?
Wouldn't it be better to risk have a ready pair?

are you on the money bubble? are you in the money and a spot a way from a money jump? are you at the final table and can potentially move up the pay ladder?

if the answer is no to any of the above, this is an easy call to try and triple up your stack.

Even at 6BB I dont like this with an all in and call in front of you. Most likely you are going against either 3 or more overcards or are going against at least one bigger pocket pair. The best you can hope for is get lucky and be going against AK, AK but that is unlikely. I would fold this hand and feel better about shoving the next time it folded to me. Didnt matter if I had 27 off, I would rather open shove than to call in a spot like this.

This is a spot, where you have to play extremely tight because of the action ahead of you. UTG jamming for 12BB should be a pretty strong range, and CO rejamming for 50BB should be an even stronger range. So in theory its only correct to call here with JJ+ or AK. Even hands as strong as TT or AQ would be a fold.

This is however assuming, that they are jamming correctly, and since its a freeroll, they are probably jamming somewhat wider. They just want to build a stack or be done, they are there to have fun etc. So I would add a few more calling hands here. Partly because it will be profitable and partly because I also want to build a stack or be done. I dont want to hang around in a freeroll with a short stack, because I lost most of my chips.

44 is way to far down though, so this is an easy and trivial fold even in a freeroll. Hopefully you can get a chance to open jam from SB, BTN or CO in the next three hands, and this is going to be way better than calling here.

Unfortunately, I didn't get more hands for a good push, I waited until the last hand and out. Thank you for the thoughts. I don’t know what I’ll do in a similar situation again. Probably I'll risk it for a change and see what happens.
KO won with KTo (wild player) get a flush, while UTG had TT

Originally Posted by sergey3

Unfortunately, I didn't get more hands for a good push, I waited until the last hand and out. Thank you for the thoughts. I don’t know what I’ll do in a similar situation again. Probably I'll risk it for a change and see what happens.
KO won with KTo (wild player) get a flush, while UTG had TT

Look for spots to get it in when you have a stack that still has fold equity (or potential fe)

You can actually easily calculate to see if calling off allin is profitable 'or' not. (from a chip expected value standpoint). This is something you could consider doing while studying away from the tables.
ie. make a note of hands where you weren't sure if your call is correct (cEV+)
- keep in mind there are other things to consider besides chip ev (ie. 'ICM', bubble, risk vs. reward and how winning may increase your stack so that it enables you to take advantage of your table (stack utility) or greatly increases your chances of running deep in the tourney)

One tool you can use to calculate this is pokerstove

Years ago when I was trying to play tournaments, I spent a good amount of time analyzing allin spots and after awhile it became much more automatic while on the tables.

Originally Posted by sergey3

Unfortunately, I didn't get more hands for a good push, I waited until the last hand and out. Thank you for the thoughts. I don’t know what I’ll do in a similar situation again. Probably I'll risk it for a change and see what happens.
KO won with KTo (wild player) get a flush, while UTG had TT

If UTG had TT, you would obviously have been in terrible shape. And as for not getting hands to push, if you are in late position with a stack this short, you can push pretty wide. Try to play around a little with ICMizer. They give you one free hand analysis per day, and currently there is also a 7 day free trial.

Even that is a turbo and you are very short stack, I would not call 44 against a lot of players. I would try to play against a single player.

Unless you lost most of your stack right before this hand you are probably playing too tight and missing profitable spots - folding down to 6bbs shouldn't happen very often.

In general 15-25bbs start re-steal shoving against loose raisers with hands ahead of their range... 10-15bb (and less) open shove most hands you are going to play.

As played, I wouldn't fault a call hoping to triple up and get back into it, but as someone else said I'd probably fold to the two shoves and hope it folds to me in the next orbit and shove hoping to get a steal through or double.

Good luck!

Found myself in a similar position today with 99 hands. Received a call (all-in) and lost to set 6, the opponent had A6c. He flopped two more sixes. It looks like PokerStars is doing everything to make me freak out and start playing my bankroll, which I slowly accumulate by playing freerolls.

Originally Posted by sergey3

Found myself in a similar position today with 99 hands. Received a call (all-in) and lost to set 6, the opponent had A6c. He flopped two more sixes. It looks like PokerStars is doing everything to make me freak out and start playing my bankroll, which I slowly accumulate by playing freerolls.

Dont overthink it. A6c has at least 30% chance to win against 99 in an all-in preflop scenario, so this happen all the time to anyone on any poker site

Dependend of tourney stage.If you far away from money it is good chance to increase your stack. You already put BB in pot. So you have good pot odds, more than triple up.

With 6 BB your fold equity is vanishing. It sounds like you weren't trying to milk a short stack through the bubble or a pay jump. The hard part is determining the ranges of your opposition. How strong is a 12 bb shove from there. Some players shove fairly wide with 12bb to maintain fold equity. Unless you are sure that you are dominated in this spot and one of that those ranges are super tight, although not a favorite you probably have enough equity to call. The cutoff reraise is not necessarily a monster here (unless you have some kind of locked down range). In my opinion you should call here based on your vanishing fold equity and the value of your hand. If the two hands are say standard 20% VPIP you are still close to 30% to win the pot, and with the dead money (including your blind) and 2 players you definitely are not putting more than 30%. If you started with 6bb, 1 would be the blind leaving 5 more. the pot would consist of antes(1 bb total), blinds (1.5) and the 5 you could call off. So your calling 5 into 12.5. Winds up being about 28% of the total 17.5. So, equity wise it is likely a close call. For me, the decision is about maintaining fold equity.

It's okay to call 6BB here with the chance to triple your stack. The UTG with 12 BB can do some A + combos and the Co too. That means, in a good spot for you, both players take the outs.

For me, 66 is a fold when we're at the bubble or there are price jumps. Unless we're clearly the last in chips.

Too much action in front for starters - if you do have the best hand and villans have 4 overcards between the two of them - youve got alot of dodging to do to hold and win. Best case scenario both villans have AK or AQ and they share each others outs and you are STILL flipping - otherwise you are crushed by the other 10 overpairs in the deck.... just fold and look for a better spot.

6bb is do or die territory - but calling off to this action is just suicide.

Originally Posted by Anglermeister

It's okay to call 6BB here with the chance to triple your stack. The UTG with 12 BB can do some A + combos and the Co too. That means, in a good spot for you, both players take the outs.

For me, 66 is a fold when we're at the bubble or there are price jumps. Unless we're clearly the last in chips.

If we are on the STONE money bubble and there's an all in and a call in front of me - im snap folding JJs and AK - QQ is a maybe...tough one to fold but I have before.

Point is its not like we don't have the best hand because with those holdings we probably do - BUT with an all in and call in front- 1 away from the money - we just don't need to risk losing in that spot. Some ROI is better than no ROI. More important for us to nit it up and cash rather than take an unnecessary risk - even with a strong hand - and bust out when we didn't have to get involved.

Hope that all makes sense.

im calling 44 6bb 3 way pot

the more the merrier and hope that they have both ak aq type of hands

this is your chance to built a stack and you have no more time to wait

hard to make a pair and you are already at an advantage by having one

we can't be too choosy with 6bb stack

time to go in and gamble

you will never go wrong in calling here because you already have so much pot odds right there and you have nothing to lose because you only have 6bb and so much to gain if you win here

I'm not trying to hijack this thread by any means -- I always see ppl advocating for seeing flops multiway with smaller and middling pairs - i try to give my best perspective and even lay some math on the table to help support my opinion. TONS of players - including many on here - are lighting chips on fire in these spots. Yes when we hit we get paid alot - we also find ourselves coolered more and drawn out on more than usual -- because we lose alot ofraw equity when there are multiple villans in the pot.

Focus more on relative hand strength and how well you're going to be able to play post flop vs "well, if i hit" - because saving 2,3, or 4bb in 5 or 6 spots across the tournament can make the difference between you rebuking unnecessarily busting out too soon, and whether or not you even make the money.

Don't get this wrong, I am singling out no one in this thread. I see lots of members here advocating for these spots and take this for what its worth - its easy to fold here, find better places, and conserve chips by avoiding bad spots, you will notice an immediate difference to how deep you go in your tournaments and the spots that you do go broke on

Originally Posted by sergey3

I have a hand of 44 on the BB. My stack is 6BB - good pushing hand for me, but:
UTG all-in 12BB.
CO all-in ~ 50BB.
The button had a big stack (200 + BB fold)
What should I call (all-in) or fold?
I decided to fold because I thought that their cards were bigger than mine, and something would come to someone, which happened at their showdown, but later I soon dropped out of the tournament. There are no more good hands to push.
What would you do?
Wouldn't it be better to risk have a ready pair?

6bb you are basically out of the tournament, however with the calls in front of you, I like the fold. Hitting trips is statistically hard and you would need to hit.

Originally Posted by Jon Poker

I'm not trying to hijack this thread by any means -- I always see ppl advocating for seeing flops multiway with smaller and middling pairs - i try to give my best perspective and even lay some math on the table to help support my opinion. TONS of players - including many on here - are lighting chips on fire in these spots. Yes when we hit we get paid alot - we also find ourselves coolered more and drawn out on more than usual -- because we lose alot ofraw equity when there are multiple villans in the pot.

Focus more on relative hand strength and how well you're going to be able to play post flop vs "well, if i hit" - because saving 2,3, or 4bb in 5 or 6 spots across the tournament can make the difference between you rebuking unnecessarily busting out too soon, and whether or not you even make the money.

Don't get this wrong, I am singling out no one in this thread. I see lots of members here advocating for these spots and take this for what its worth - its easy to fold here, find better places, and conserve chips by avoiding bad spots, you will notice an immediate difference to how deep you go in your tournaments and the spots that you do go broke on

i can't speak for anyone else, but while i know folding here is the better option, i also like to say 'lets gambol' sometimes and get it in. especially if it's a spot where i can still re-enter/re-buy and have more big blinds starting if i miss and bust out. if i hit, good for me.

in no way am i trying to give bad information and i wouldn't give any advice on something i wouldn't do myself. i'm also not saying my advice is correct and yours is wrong, or vice versa. instead, i think it's good for op to have some options as what they can do while understanding the risk v reward for their action. yes, getting it in this spot is risky but, imo, so is not taking the risk as well. there is no knowing that, by folding, you'll be put in a better spot to get your money in. and there is no knowing that you're giving up a better opportunity later if you get your money in now, in op's situation.

now, this is how i personally view this situation when i play, but i lean more taking necessary risks as they come and not passing up on the opportunity. i play with a very simple motto of 'no regrets' and by that i mean i don't want to regret or second guess any of my actions, no matter what the result is. so in this situation, i'll regret not taking the risk here. i'd rather take the 'gambol' in this spot and and bust out instead of folding and potentially being forced to play a mediocre hand for less big blinds because i have no other options. now, it's impossible to know what will happen if i fold; i could easily get qq+ 10 hands in a row but i could also just get a bunch of hands i just can't play.

so, taking the risk now is going to be more in my favor than taking one later on. especially if i'm risking the chance of not even getting a better hand/situation to get my money with. in the end, whether i play/don't play this situation, i'll be taking some risk at some point because my stack is so shallow and i think it's best to take my chances now, especially when the reward (pot size) is worth it. i have an opportunity to more than triple up my stack as a severe short stack. i'm not going to get many opportunities like this if i fold here.

again, not saying you're wrong or i'm right. just giving my perspective on things.

edit: obv, this is a fold on the money bubble, significant money ladder spot, final table bubble, or a final table money ladder spot. if it's no where near the money, then i play the hand.

edit2: i've always be weary about giving advice on the hand analysis section because i am a very high risk/high reward player when i get to being the short stack. while my intention is to not give bad advice, i want to be true with how i approach and play certain situations and what i'm comfortable with doing. but i also understand that it might not be what others want to do.

so, i'll be interested to see what other members' take on my 'advice' is.

Originally Posted by ohshootmybad

i can't speak for anyone else, but while i know folding here is the better option, i also like to say 'lets gambol' sometimes and get it in. especially if it's a spot where i can still re-enter/re-buy and have more big blinds starting if i miss and bust out. if i hit, good for me.

in no way am i trying to give bad information and i wouldn't give any advice on something i wouldn't do myself. i'm also not saying my advice is correct and yours is wrong, or vice versa. instead, i think it's good for op to have some options as what they can do while understanding the risk v reward for their action. yes, getting it in this spot is risky but, imo, so is not taking the risk as well. there is no knowing that, by folding, you'll be put in a better spot to get your money in. and there is no knowing that you're giving up a better opportunity later if you get your money in now, in op's situation.

now, this is how i personally view this situation when i play, but i lean more taking necessary risks as they come and not passing up on the opportunity. i play with a very simple motto of 'no regrets' and by that i mean i don't want to regret or second guess any of my actions, no matter what the result is. so in this situation, i'll regret not taking the risk here. i'd rather take the 'gambol' in this spot and and bust out instead of folding and potentially being forced to play a mediocre hand for less big blinds because i have no other options. now, it's impossible to know what will happen if i fold; i could easily get qq+ 10 hands in a row but i could also just get a bunch of hands i just can't play.

so, taking the risk now is going to be more in my favor than taking one later on. especially if i'm risking the chance of not even getting a better hand/situation to get my money with. in the end, whether i play/don't play this situation, i'll be taking some risk at some point because my stack is so shallow and i think it's best to take my chances now, especially when the reward (pot size) is worth it. i have an opportunity to more than triple up my stack as a severe short stack. i'm not going to get many opportunities like this if i fold here.

again, not saying you're wrong or i'm right. just giving my perspective on things.

edit: obv, this is a fold on the money bubble, significant money ladder spot, final table bubble, or a final table money ladder spot. if it's no where near the money, then i play the hand.

edit2: i've always be weary about giving advice on the hand analysis section because i am a very high risk/high reward player when i get to being the short stack. while my intention is to not give bad advice, i want to be true with how i approach and play certain situations and what i'm comfortable with doing. but i also understand that it might not be what others want to do.

so, i'll be interested to see what other members' take on my 'advice' is.

When we start saying "let's gamble" ‐ you are no longer playing poker and would do better off playing craps or the slot machines. Mathematically this is a long term losing play - and there are still a large majority of players making this mistake whom when they hit - think they made the right call and will continue to burn chips with this mistake every chance they get. All I am trying to do is assist with those points and that perspective - I make money when the majority of the field is making mistakes so at the end of the day - tho I am offering help here and now - I hope most of the ppl doing this continue to make mistakes like this even the smallest mistakes add up. Good luck in all your games - I have said my peace here and as stated do not want to hijack the thread

Originally Posted by Jon Poker

When we start saying "let's gamble" ‐ you are no longer playing poker and would do better off playing craps or the slot machines. Mathematically this is a long term losing play - and there are still a large majority of players making this mistake whom when they hit - think they made the right call and will continue to burn chips with this mistake every chance they get. All I am trying to do is assist with those points and that perspective - I make money when the majority of the field is making mistakes so at the end of the day - tho I am offering help here and now - I hope most of the ppl doing this continue to make mistakes like this even the smallest mistakes add up. Good luck in all your games - I have said my peace here and as stated do not want to hijack the thread

very well said. i believe your reply confirms what i was was unsure of when it came to me giving 'advice' in this section of the forum.

Originally Posted by ohshootmybad

very well said. i believe your reply confirms what i was was unsure of when it came to me giving 'advice' in this section of the forum.

Don't be affraid to voice your opinion in certain situations - but also keep an open mind about others as well. I know sometimes my posts can seem one sided or abrasive but I'm also trying to offer advice from what I've learned over the course of my time making my own mistakes. I've also sought coaching over the past year and a half or so and learned from even more mistakes I was making and attempt to pass on what I know from my perspective of the game. So while I may not be 100% correct in every spot, I like to think I at least deliver some sound information in between the rambling.

Elaborating more on your post- point is, yes - when we take that "ill gamble" spot with the mindset of "well the risk is worth it if i hit then i can run deeper" - its just digging a hole that when we do get lucky enuff to hit, makes us feel like its correct to take that risk and we just dig deeper long term. I used to make this mistake ALL the time a little more than a year ago, when I sewed up this leak - I faired MUCH better in tournament runs. Anyhow, yeah we feel good when we risk alot and hit our hand, but in reality we should be focusing on avoiding spots where we could be "gambling" or taking an unnecessary risk - and instead turning our attention to proper play via stack sizes, proper ranges, and proper icm call off/shoves. Rather than taking risks we don't HAVE to take - we can play a solid game and get better results overall then the times we take a big risk and it happens to work out and pay off.

If you really want your mind blown - you should look into final table icm implications - as much as 99% of the player pool won't do it - there are lots of spots where you can only call off QQs+ and are supposed to fold AKo and AKs - even crazier there are a few spots you are SUPPOSED to fold KKs and only call off/shove with AA. Icmizer us the program of choice for me when studying these spots. Icmizer is a phenomenal program and will allow you to run 1 free hand a day - if you want to really get good at this game and are willing to put in the time and work - id recommend a subscription. It will make you $$ within the first year easily if you work with it enough.

Anyways lol enough rambling. Thank you for the kind words - I hope all of this helps some of you in one way, shape, or form

Personally, I hate going out with the small pairs. At best, you're up against 4 over cards, at worst against at least one over pair.