$Freeroll NLHE MTT: TT against two All in

Dzob

Dzob

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When I decided to fold TT, I thought that the range of rivals is a little higher than TT and I'm behind. Opponents played tight. I would definitely call JJ and higher hands. Did I make a mistake in this hand?

pokerstars, Hold'em No Limit - 15/30 - 9 players
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XXXnirvanaXXX (UTG): 2,734 (91 bb)
ALBOSALTEÑO (UTG+1): 1,395 (47 bb)
dzob_killer (MP): 2,152 (72 bb)
Aremaz95 (MP+1): 2,087 (70 bb)
JanisSoprano (LP): 1,110 (37 bb)
rui612016 (CO): 277 (9 bb)
QuieTude1 (BU): 1,380 (46 bb)
PS_Marcs (SB): 2,846 (95 bb)
demibar (BB): 899 (30 bb)

Pre-Flop: (45) Hero (dzob_killer) is MP with T T
XXXnirvanaXXX (UTG) calls 30, 1 fold, dzob_killer (MP) raises to 90, 1 fold, JanisSoprano (LP) 3-bets to 1,110 (all-in), 4 players fold, XXXnirvanaXXX (UTG) 4-bets to 2,734 (all-in), dzob_killer (MP) folds

Flop: (2,355) 5 Q 3 (2 players, 2 all-in)

Turn: (2,355) 3 (2 players, 2 all-in)

River: (2,355) 8 (2 players, 2 all-in)

Total pot: 2,355

Showdown:
XXXnirvanaXXX (UTG) shows 4 4 (two pair, Fours and Threes)
(Equity - Pre-Flop: 19%, Flop: 12%, Turn: 5%, River: 0%)

JanisSoprano (LP) shows 7 7 (two pair, Sevens and Threes)
(Equity - Pre-Flop: 81%, Flop: 88%, Turn: 95%, River: 100%)

JanisSoprano (LP) wins 2,355
 
F

fundiver199

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Obviously these guys are goofballs, which is not to surpricing, since its a freeroll. But even though this time they both went crazy with a small pair, in the long run its not profitable to stack off TT in a situation like this against someone, who play more correct poker. And when people are this bad, you can probably find a better spot later.
 
B

Brawo

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Limp from UTG and you made little bet 3xBB, mistake, your bet should be 120-150. Janis Soprano moved snap all-in with 37bigs, huge all-in and like you see UTG limper went all-in too. Easy fold here. Good decision.

Of course when we know what they had ... but we never know.
 
I

Ianmacca99

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Preflop your raise size needs to be bigger to around 125-150.

I think a lot here your going to be against 2 overs or crushed by one or both of the players

Good fold it's annoying to see what they actually had but don't be results orientated play this spot another 100 times and you'll be behind a hell of a lot.
 
gardin555

gardin555

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I think that it was a good fold, because It was at the beginning of the tournament and you can't risk the whole tournament in one hand against two players allins.


Maybe I could to bet more high preflop (x4x5bb) to see who call you.


In a CC freeroll tournys I recommend to you to make notes of the players, for example in this case they were two loose agressive players, who would go allin preflop with low pairs, knowing that, your TT hand has another value and you would take another decision. ;)
 
M

marvbake

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XXXnirvanaXXX (UTG): 2,734 (91 bb)
dzob_killer (MP): 2,152 (72 bb)
JanisSoprano (LP): 1,110 (37 bb)
rui612016 (CO): 277 (9 bb)
QuieTude1 (BU): 1,380 (46 bb)
PS_Marcs (SB): 2,846 (95 bb)
demibar (BB): 899 (30 bb)

Pre-Flop: (45) Hero (dzob_killer) is MP with T T
XXXnirvanaXXX (UTG) calls 30, 1 fold, dzob_killer (MP) raises to 90, 1 fold, JanisSoprano (LP) 3-bets to 1,110 (all-in), 4 players fold, XXXnirvanaXXX (UTG) 4-bets to 2,734 (all-in), dzob_killer (MP) folds
Even though you had them all of them beat, it's not worth risking all of your chips with TT there. They were just that bad. You only lost 90 too. Sure you would've won more, but most of the time TT is an underdog there. Not worth risking finding out if you're good there when you can easily be a 4:1 dog.

You're putting your opponents on JJ+, AK, and that's it. You had no prior history to know they'd shove 44, 77 there. But now that you have that history with them, next time vs THEM, that's an easy call.
 
X

xrhstos

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Since this is a freeroll you can expect your opponents to be making big mistakes preflop.
As played, you can guess the LP player has a pocket pair or AQ+ since he decided to 3bet shove 40bb's.
UTG player should usually have suited cards, a low pocket pair or once in a while AA, since they open limped.
So the question is how you do vs both of them.
I believe TT is good enough to justify a call vs their range, but you can also fold and wait for a better spot vs them, which you are definitely going to get since they are that aggressive.
Personally I call here to get a bigger stack and start exploiting the bad players more with it.
 
F

fundiver199

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Its not unusual for bad players to go crazy with a small pocket pair for way to many blinds. They do however normally go crazy by jamming them all in, like LP did in this hand. So I am not surpriced to see him flip over 77, and if UTG had folded, I would have called with TT.

I am however a little surpriced to see UTG show up with 44. He had no fold equity against LP, and even a novice must understand, that calling a big jam with 44 is not a profitable play. Its not exactly rocket science, since 44 is either flipping with two overcards or a 4:1 dog to a better pair. Only on the rarest of occations will LP show up with exactly 22-33 or a hand like A2-A4s.

The only reasonable explanation is, that UTG wanted to build a large stack as fast as possible, so he could then cash by sitting out. This is a very freeroll specific thing, and I would not beat myself up over letting such a player perform a calling bluff on me. Its more important to not develop bad habits, which we might then carry with us over to normal tournaments, where something like this rarely if ever happen.
 
Jon Poker

Jon Poker

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I have two primary perspectives on this...

First off - preflop applies to both - our open is too small. W have a limper in front - I elect to go 3x + 1bb for the limper + .5 - 1 more bb for a "no limping" tax. So I would make it 135 - 150 here.

That being said - rest of the action takes place and our limper jams over the top of the 3bet shove - puts us in an awkward spot. Looking in depth at this hand we have the first villan covered by 2:1 and the 2nd villan has us covered - essentially we only have to beat one villan to "break even" in this hand while we will have the chance of taking our stack above 5k if we win the hand outright. Given those ideal and since this is a freeroll and I have nothing invested - I am snap calling here. I could be crushed by one opponent - but TT is still a pretty strong hand and if both have JJ+ good for them I guess, but that's going to be pretty rare....no one is limp raising JJ in a freeroll, these players are relatively ALWAYS open hands that strong so I think we can pretty easily discredit them.

I would also make the same call in a real $$ buy in tournament that I am well rolled for. Say you have a $250+ bankroll and this is a $1 or $2 tournament - I am still snapping here with the idea that I only have to beat one opponent to remain relatively on the same stack size.

Now...if this were a higher buy in tournament or one where results could be most helpful for your bankroll - that changes things.

If we are playing higher buys ins with players capable of understanding ranges and making sneaky limp-raise moves with strong hands - then I think we can consider the fold. TT is a strong hand but there's going to be at least 1 over on a chit ton of flops and if we are not crushed already, we are likely flipping against at least one of our opponents. The action preflop represents extreme strength from players who would be competent and we should have alarm bells going off everywhere inside our head. At the end of the day we are only invested for 3bb and we aren't giving up much by just folding and preserving our stack size. So in a bigger event with a capable player pool - I think this sort of preflop action warrants us reason enough to get out of the way and live to fight another day.

Hope this helps and makes sense! Good luck in your games and at the tables!
 
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fundiver199

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I would also make the same call in a real $$ buy in tournament that I am well rolled for. Say you have a $250+ bankroll and this is a $1 or $2 tournament - I am still snapping here with the idea that I only have to beat one opponent to remain relatively on the same stack size.

As is often the case, your analysis make a lot of sense. And yeah I agree. In a 1-2$ tournament there can still be plenty of goofballs on tilts, who limp-shove their pocket-whatever, and HUD-data can also help us determine, if UTG is one of them. If UTG is a remotely competent player though, then the only limp-traps, he should even consider having, are KK and AA exactly, and since LP has already moved all-in, its not even possible for UTG to bluff. He can bluff Hero out of pot, but that is completely pointless, when Hero only has 3BB invested, and he is getting 37BB in against LP.
 
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