$Freeroll NLHE MTT: Top pair top kicker

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formertroll

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one of the freerolls where 25% (or so) get paid

3rd level 30/60 i think (doesn't matter a ton)


effective stacks of near starting 1,500


i get AsJc in early position, i raise 3x, all fold to the small blind who calls, BB folds.h


flop comes Js5h4d


i bet 50% because i want to take the pot now, just in case. SB calls.


turn comes 3 of hearts


i bet 50% again hoping for a takedown so he's not drawing out on me, he calls


river comes 8 hearts


seeing nothing scary, i go all in with what's left, SB calls with the backdoor hearts flush, one overcard (Q2 iirc).


given his play, is there anything i could have done to get him off the draw earlier? is this just bad luck? should i have played differently along the way?
 
Nathan Smith

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I think your thought process is a little off. When you bet flop it's not because you want to take the pot right now - you want to get value from you good hand. You can be called by worse Jx, 99, 88, 77, 66, 5x, 4x, and I guess in these freerolls Q high OOP??????I would have bet three times on this run-out, but smaller on the flop as there are no draws to worry about. Then bigger on the turn and thin value on the river (folding to a re-raise. And I would avoid being all in on the river by my smaller sizing.
 
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formertroll

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I think your thought process is a little off. When you bet flop it's not because you want to take the pot right now - you want to get value from you good hand. You can be called by worse Jx, 99, 88, 77, 66, 5x, 4x, and I guess in these freerolls Q high OOP??????I would have bet three times on this run-out, but smaller on the flop as there are no draws to worry about. Then bigger on the turn and thin value on the river (folding to a re-raise. And I would avoid being all in on the river by my smaller sizing.

if we assume that villian calls down, what would your bet sizing be? after flop it would be 7bb in the pot i think.


and if you were playing this hand but got reraised on the river, what hads could villian have played as call, call , call, reraise? i don't see how he gets to the river mathmatically calling.
 
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Grearix

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What do you mean with 50% bet? Half pot bet? If you want to take the pot here a half pot bet is not enough. But you want value for your hand on that flop. I would have made a c-bet of 3BB, which doesn't give that much information to Villain and is inviting for a call. On the turn it's another story, now you have possible flush and straight draws. Here you want to take the pot. I would make at least a pot bet here or even shove if you have notes Villain is easily calling.
 
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formertroll

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What do you mean with 50% bet? Half pot bet? If you want to take the pot here a half pot bet is not enough. But you want value for your hand on that flop. I would have made a c-bet of 3BB, which doesn't give that much information to Villain and is inviting for a call. On the turn it's another story, now you have possible flush and straight draws. Here you want to take the pot. I would make at least a pot bet here or even shove if you have notes Villain is easily calling.


thanks for that explanation.
 
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You should’ve checked on the river and reavaluated. It’s a super wet board on the river straights got there the flush got there he played a bit loose in this hand but sometimes you have to check and give it up and look for a better spot. You describe him as tight so to make this play he probably has something.
 
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1dkp0k3r

1dkp0k3r

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Your flop bet size is fine. The turn adds a backdoor flush draw and a straight draw. If your intention with the turn bet was to take the pot down, then you need to bet more than 1/2 pot. Something closer to 80% pot might have worked.
 
Gohaku94

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You should bet the flop bigger than 50% in this type of tournamets. Can go to full pot. And because blinds are so high compared to stack sizes ( you only have like 25bb to start) just shove the turn it should work much better than 50% 50%
 
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formertroll

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You should’ve checked on the river and reavaluated. It’s a super wet board on the river straights got there the flush got there he played a bit loose in this hand but sometimes you have to check and give it up and look for a better spot. You describe him as tight so to make this play he probably has something.

this might be a bit of a dumb question, but at each step i was very confident i had the best hand and overbet so that anyone who called would get bad pot odds, is that generally the right play or was i simply risking too much if the river hit (at that point the best i suspected he had was 30% chance since he could have straight draws and a flush draw, plus a few hours if he was chasing a second pair)
 
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formertroll

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Your flop bet size is fine. The turn adds a backdoor flush draw and a straight draw. If your intention with the turn bet was to take the pot down, then you need to bet more than 1/2 pot. Something closer to 80% pot might have worked.

if the pot is 100 and i bet 50, he has to win 1/3 times to get his money back? so i guess 80% would be a much better play since i had him pegged onabout 33% chance the whole time (nothing but draws) at least 80% forces him to be right what, 2/3 times?
 
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You have played too aggressive and he always called you so he had something if he didn't he would have fold.Maybe you should have bet smaller on the river or better check to see if he would bet then you would know what to do if he was a tight player he had something.
 
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formertroll

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You have played too aggressive and he always called you so he had something if he didn't he would have fold.Maybe you should have bet smaller on the river or better check to see if he would bet then you would know what to do if he was a tight player he had something.

in this case though, he literally had nothing till the river. he started with a weak hand (below average actually), after the flop he needed runner runner, and after the turn he still needed not a miracle card but still not anything one would want to risk their tournament on. i was ahead the whole time :(
 
1Player

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this might be a bit of a dumb question, but at each step i was very confident i had the best hand and overbet so that anyone who called would get bad pot odds, is that generally the right play or was i simply risking too much if the river hit (at that point the best i suspected he had was 30% chance since he could have straight draws and a flush draw, plus a few hours if he was chasing a second pair)


You underbet. Or barelybet. Half pot makes it unprofitable to chase straights and flushes. That's more like a minbet.



As far as overbetting, if somebody in a freeroll wants to stay in, they're going to stay in no matter what. Until late in the tournament.
 
TheBigFinn

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I think your thought process is a little off. When you bet flop it's not because you want to take the pot right now - you want to get value from you good hand. You can be called by worse Jx, 99, 88, 77, 66, 5x, 4x, and I guess in these freerolls Q high OOP??????I would have bet three times on this run-out, but smaller on the flop as there are no draws to worry about. Then bigger on the turn and thin value on the river (folding to a re-raise. And I would avoid being all in on the river by my smaller sizing.
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Good advice. I'd add in a free roll players are often loose bad. I play a standard size continuation bet, but would make the turn more like 1/2 pot, denying Villain the odds to call. If he does, I plan to check back the river.

The question Hero should be asking is, "Do I want to be all in with TPTK?" It is early to to play for stacks with a pair, but if Hero doubles up early it make playing the later stages easier. If Hero bust there is always another tournament and he has lost nothing. With that in mind being supper aggressive early is not a bad free roll strategy. There is nothing worse than bubbling a free roll.
 
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PKRNRS

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You are playing a freeroll. Players don't ever fold their draws no matter how narrow they may be.
 
Jacki Burkhart

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everything about the way you played the hand is perfectly fine.

everything you explained about your thinking is backwards.

we are value betting all the way. not to try and get him to fold so we can take it down (just in case). How are we supposed to win tournaments (or cash games) if when we finally make hands we are hoping for folds?

when we finally jam on the river, it's not because we "don't see anything scary" it's because the stack to pot ratio is such that TPTK just cannot fold.

it's also ok to check river too as long as you never fold to his jam. (but I think it looks like he has something and I'd prefer to just get value from it by jamming. don't wanna let KJ off the hook)

but our hand is too strong given the action and size of pot to ever fold on the river
 
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HaroldHouse

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You didnt see anything scary?
The 8h made the flush draw and the small straight draw. No over pair to your JJ but a flush or a straight come in. Also betting half the pot is a small bet. Was good for a cbet on the flop but turn bet should been much larger. If he called the pot size bet on the turn, then the heart and the straight hit on the river card you have to slow down to a small bet. Then if he raises I think you have to give it up and fold.
 
SuzdalDEcor

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It is maybe slowplay, it is maybe JhXh, it is maybe straight. You can`t push for value on the river. I think you must play check-back always!
 
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GoSplat678

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one of the freerolls where 25% (or so) get paid

3rd level 30/60 i think (doesn't matter a ton)


effective stacks of near starting 1,500


i get AsJc in early position, i raise 3x, all fold to the small blind who calls, BB folds.h


flop comes Js5h4d


i bet 50% because i want to take the pot now, just in case. SB calls.


turn comes 3 of hearts


i bet 50% again hoping for a takedown so he's not drawing out on me, he calls


river comes 8 hearts


seeing nothing scary, i go all in with what's left, SB calls with the backdoor hearts flush, one overcard (Q2 iirc).


given his play, is there anything i could have done to get him off the draw earlier? is this just bad luck? should i have played differently along the way?



sounds like a bad luck draw to a weaker player to me
 
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