$Freeroll NLHE MTT: $micro NLHE MTT: $micro NLHE MTT: Top pair top Kicker and flush draw Nuts

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$Freeroll NLHE MTT: $micro NLHE MTT: $micro NLHE MTT: Top pair top Kicker and flush draw Nuts

I can't let go of this hand, although there was some information that would lead me to believe that the villain could have a set on the flop. I don't think I'd ever let go of a hand like that. Would anyone here drop it?


Winning Poker, Hold'em No Limit - 375/750 (90 ante) - 9 players
Replay this hand on CardsChat

GeraM (UTG): 47,530 (63 bb)
DemonKov (UTG+1): 19,955 (27 bb)
cdjohn24 (MP): 28,900 (39 bb)
ChawDaddyStan (MP+1): 55,928 (75 bb)
Maxmustdie (LP): 19,110 (25 bb)
90liveira09 (CO): 13,443 (18 bb)
1MilhaoSemNada (BU): 84,473 (113 bb)
ASHBURNLOVELL (SB): 25,740 (34 bb)
Thamagiciann (BB): 16,484 (22 bb)

Pre-Flop: (1,935) Hero (1MilhaoSemNada) is BTN with A J
2 players fold, cdjohn24 (MP) raises to 1,650, 1 fold, Maxmustdie (LP) calls 1,650, 1 fold, 1MilhaoSemNada (BU) 3-bets to 5,175, 2 players fold, cdjohn24 (MP) calls 3,525, Maxmustdie (LP) calls 3,525

Flop: (17,460) J 6 T (3 players)
cdjohn24 (MP) checks, Maxmustdie (LP) checks, 1MilhaoSemNada (BU) checks

Turn: (17,460) 2 (3 players)
cdjohn24 (MP) bets 7,980, Maxmustdie (LP) raises to 13,845 (all-in), 1MilhaoSemNada (BU) raises to 24,075, cdjohn24 (MP) calls 15,655 (all-in)

River: (78,575) 8 (3 players, 2 all-in)

Total pot: 78,575

Showdown:
1MilhaoSemNada (BU) shows A J (a pair of Jacks)
(Equity - Pre-Flop: 37%, Flop: 32%, Turn: 19%, River: 0%)

Maxmustdie (LP) shows Q K (high card, King)
(Equity - Pre-Flop: 31%, Flop: 16%, Turn: 14%, River: 0%)

cdjohn24 (MP) shows 6 6 (three of a kind, Sixes)
(Equity - Pre-Flop: 32%, Flop: 53%, Turn: 67%, River: 100%)

cdjohn24 (MP) wins 78,575
 
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fundiver199

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Stack sizes are a bit awkward here, because you are a little to deep against the original raiser to jam, but at the same time any 3-bet, which is large enough to make them fold, will at least commit you against the field caller.

You end up making a very small 3-bet, and I dont really think, that does anything. So while I am generally on board with squeezing a hand like AJs, with these exact stack sizes I might actually just call and try to use my position to outplay them postflop.

As played postflop is just a setup. Everyone flopped a big piece of the board, and the SPR was extremely low because of your 3-bet, which both players called. So of course all the chips are going in, and it just is, what it is.
 
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300HPGOD

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My take on this is similar to fundivers but I am sure I would probably just call here more even if the stacks were a little deeper (its a leak of mine). In this specific spot I am definitely just calling unless I have made up my mind that I am calling their 4 bet jam should they make it. I dont think AJ is a hand I would want to call too many 4 bet jams but maybe there is something about these villains I dont know that would warrant a call to their jam here. Since I normally would think that I am not calling their jam I like calling here and just seeing the flop with a nice hand.

Once this flops hits I am never folding given the effective stacks that are out there. I could see folding on the river if a K or Q hit and I somehow got there without the effective stacks in by that point but I dont think I would play the hand in a way for that to happen so I would be thinking Im not folding here. I dont like your check on the flop at all. I am not sure why you would do that there since you want to get value from hands that are willing to continue and you want to protect at least somewhat against some stray K or Q hitting the turn that is non clubs and possible straight draws. On top of that it is a hand that we have no fears of being check raised because we would just pile it in if the check raise didnt already do that to us. I know we somewhat monopolize the board here and it is rare for either villain to have QQ-AA based on pre flop actions but I would still bet here and see if I can a call. If we check the flop and nothing comes on the turn then we will bet the turn then and still get the fold that I am assuming you were afraid of on the flop. Better to just bet something now to setup some effective stack river shove on the turn.

As played on the turn you do the wise move and get it in and unfortunate that there is a set and you dont hit your club. No way to fold there and there should never be any thought of folding there in my opinion after that flop.
 
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I would have done a couple of things differently but ultimately it probably wouldn't have changed the outcome.

I think 3-betting on the BTN is fine and occasionally I also flat. However, I would have made my 3-bet bigger - like somewhere between 6k and 6.5k. This discourages LP from calling if MP calls, and it could also take down the pot preflop.

With top pair-top kicker-nut flush draw on a wet flop like that, I would lean towards value betting (but I would also check sometimes in position to balance it out and sometimes check-raise when out of position). You're only losing to a set (villains don't have JT in their range unless they're really loose) in which case you can chalk it up to a cooler.
 
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fundiver199

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Just for the record I would also bet the flop. Hero did not say, why he checked back, and I hope it was to induce. It does however sound a little like, he was thinking, he might be behind. And this is definitely not my thinking on this board. There are only 7 combos of sets, and on the flop we are not behind to anything else. If someone flopped two pair with JT, we have 12 outs, and if they just called pre with QQ or KK, we have 15 outs. With 12 outs we are more than priced in to stack it off, and with 15 outs we are even a bit ahead.

Because the SPR is so small, there is no point in bombing the flop, but we can bet something like 25-30% and hope, it induces one of them, or both of them, to check-raise us and get it in. And if they just call, we have a very easy jam on the turn with less than a half pot bet left. We are going to get paid by a ton of worse hands here including the KQ, which one of them ended up having.

At the end of the day running TPTK into a set on a board like this is just a massive cooler, and its nothing to worry about. Even if Hero had just called preflop, there is no way he could have folded postflop on this particular runout. Sometimes we are just destined to lose a bunch of chips, and this was one of those times.
 
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My take on this is similar to fundivers but I am sure I would probably just call here more even if the stacks were a little deeper (its a leak of mine). In this specific spot I am definitely just calling unless I have made up my mind that I am calling their 4 bet jam should they make it. I dont think AJ is a hand I would want to call too many 4 bet jams but maybe there is something about these villains I dont know that would warrant a call to their jam here. Since I normally would think that I am not calling their jam I like calling here and just seeing the flop with a nice hand.

Once this flops hits I am never folding given the effective stacks that are out there. I could see folding on the river if a K or Q hit and I somehow got there without the effective stacks in by that point but I dont think I would play the hand in a way for that to happen so I would be thinking Im not folding here. I dont like your check on the flop at all. I am not sure why you would do that there since you want to get value from hands that are willing to continue and you want to protect at least somewhat against some stray K or Q hitting the turn that is non clubs and possible straight draws. On top of that it is a hand that we have no fears of being check raised because we would just pile it in if the check raise didnt already do that to us. I know we somewhat monopolize the board here and it is rare for either villain to have QQ-AA based on pre flop actions but I would still bet here and see if I can a call. If we check the flop and nothing comes on the turn then we will bet the turn then and still get the fold that I am assuming you were afraid of on the flop. Better to just bet something now to setup some effective stack river shove on the turn.

As played on the turn you do the wise move and get it in and unfortunate that there is a set and you dont hit your club. No way to fold there and there should never be any thought of folding there in my opinion after that flop.



Because my friend is thinking that the biggest mistake was ocheck on the flop, in fact my intention was to play and check raise, I wasn't afraid of the flop no ...
 
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agree with all points of view, thank you very much!
Another issue that was mentioned that I think was wrong was also the size of the preflop tribet, maybe if I had made it higher I wouldn't have faced that set of 66 post-flop
 
vatt110

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but I am sure I would probably just call here-

calling initial raise and a call may often result in 4-5 way pot preflop (you are giving your SB and BB opponents free chances to see the flop)

as I understand that 3bet here is the best option, but why don't you think of 10.5-12 bb #bet size? don't ya just make high broadways and mid pairs fold for half the stack?
Lets try to see the 20bb stack 3bet calling range leaving 10bb left (if calls)- and its a question with no "call" answer

-looks exactly the best exploitative spot where you can put you opponents into a tough push/fold decision

I would not want to call too many 4 bet jams -

Look, we all should be aware there's a 3bet/fold to4bet or 4bet/fold to 5bet tool used in mtt
esp when the hero is deep its ok to use
but again
how often will 20 bb opponent shove here to 11bb 3bet ?AK-AJ, JJ+?
Anyone here interested to get this hand calculated? pls let me know
and gl


My take on this is similar to fundivers but I am sure I would probably just call here more even if the stacks were a little deeper (its a leak of mine). In this specific spot I am definitely just calling unless I have made up my mind that I am calling their 4 bet jam should they make it. I dont think AJ is a hand I would want to call too many 4 bet jams but maybe there is something about these villains I dont know that would warrant a call to their jam here. Since I normally would think that I am not calling their jam I like calling here and just seeing the flop with a nice hand.

Once this flops hits I am never folding given the effective stacks that are out there. I could see folding on the river if a K or Q hit and I somehow got there without the effective stacks in by that point but I dont think I would play the hand in a way for that to happen so I would be thinking Im not folding here. I dont like your check on the flop at all. I am not sure why you would do that there since you want to get value from hands that are willing to continue and you want to protect at least somewhat against some stray K or Q hitting the turn that is non clubs and possible straight draws. On top of that it is a hand that we have no fears of being check raised because we would just pile it in if the check raise didnt already do that to us. I know we somewhat monopolize the board here and it is rare for either villain to have QQ-AA based on pre flop actions but I would still bet here and see if I can a call. If we check the flop and nothing comes on the turn then we will bet the turn then and still get the fold that I am assuming you were afraid of on the flop. Better to just bet something now to setup some effective stack river shove on the turn.

As played on the turn you do the wise move and get it in and unfortunate that there is a set and you dont hit your club. No way to fold there and there should never be any thought of folding there in my opinion after that flop.
 
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eetenor

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I can't let go of this hand, although there was some information that would lead me to believe that the villain could have a set on the flop. I don't think I'd ever let go of a hand like that. Would anyone here drop it?


Winning Poker, Hold'em No Limit - 375/750 (90 ante) - 9 players
Replay this hand on CardsChat

GeraM (UTG): 47,530 (63 bb)
DemonKov (UTG+1): 19,955 (27 bb)
cdjohn24 (MP): 28,900 (39 bb)
ChawDaddyStan (MP+1): 55,928 (75 bb)
Maxmustdie (LP): 19,110 (25 bb)
90liveira09 (CO): 13,443 (18 bb)
1MilhaoSemNada (BU): 84,473 (113 bb)
ASHBURNLOVELL (SB): 25,740 (34 bb)
Thamagiciann (BB): 16,484 (22 bb)

Pre-Flop: (1,935) Hero (1MilhaoSemNada) is BTN with A J
2 players fold, cdjohn24 (MP) raises to 1,650, 1 fold, Maxmustdie (LP) calls 1,650, 1 fold, 1MilhaoSemNada (BU) 3-bets to 5,175, 2 players fold, cdjohn24 (MP) calls 3,525, Maxmustdie (LP) calls 3,525

Flop: (17,460) J 6 T (3 players)
cdjohn24 (MP) checks, Maxmustdie (LP) checks, 1MilhaoSemNada (BU) checks

Turn: (17,460) 2 (3 players)
cdjohn24 (MP) bets 7,980, Maxmustdie (LP) raises to 13,845 (all-in), 1MilhaoSemNada (BU) raises to 24,075, cdjohn24 (MP) calls 15,655 (all-in)

River: (78,575) 8 (3 players, 2 all-in)

Total pot: 78,575

Showdown:
1MilhaoSemNada (BU) shows A J (a pair of Jacks)
(Equity - Pre-Flop: 37%, Flop: 32%, Turn: 19%, River: 0%)

Maxmustdie (LP) shows Q K (high card, King)
(Equity - Pre-Flop: 31%, Flop: 16%, Turn: 14%, River: 0%)

cdjohn24 (MP) shows 6 6 (three of a kind, Sixes)
(Equity - Pre-Flop: 32%, Flop: 53%, Turn: 67%, River: 100%)

cdjohn24 (MP) wins 78,575

Thank you for posting.

How we build the foundation of a hand makes all the difference when the hand gets difficult and expensive on later streets.

Preflop we have a hand that is not dominating the openers range yet we 3bet it.
Our hand does have great implied odds as it makes straights and flushes and could hit the A and be ahead of the callers Ax hands and win vs openers pairs. That would also mean we have fewer outs to an A preflop so not a great reason to 3 bet in this spot.

SPR plays a role in our decision to 3 bet as well. The V in the middle had sub 1 SPR after calling lowering our bet the flop get folds when we miss %.
The opener is going to call often so we want to be thinking about this as a 3 way pot when we 3 bet

The opener should be shoving AA KK QQ JJ AK AQs and could have shoved the 66 and we do not want to call the shove with AJ
Our 3 bet does not get any folds as we might expect in a freeroll -we want to anticipate this lack of folding preflop and not put chips at risk early when our V will get all-in later anyway. We do not have to build pots early at these effective stack sizes.

Hope this helps
:):)
 
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