$Freeroll NLHE MTT: Free CC ACR: flush vs two fullhouses

[I Live Poker]

wow! I was stra8 flush draw I didn't start on the flop anymore!

Winning Poker, Hold'em No Limit - 20/40 - 8 players
Replay this hand on CardsChat

DFS3 (UTG): 2,455 (61 bb)
speedlimit85 (UTG+1): 2,455 (61 bb)
MickGreedy (MP): 648 (16 bb)
FeedMeSeymore (MP+1): 2,330 (58 bb)
1MilhaoSemNada (CO): 10,046 (251 bb)
GAHJEC13 (BU): 878 (22 bb)
ClydeLFC (SB): 2,437 (61 bb)
DiegoRamos (BB): 3,354 (84 bb)

Pre-Flop: (60) Hero (1MilhaoSemNada) is CO with 5♣ 7♣
DFS3 (UTG) raises to 80, 2 players fold, FeedMeSeymore (MP+1) calls 80, 1MilhaoSemNada (CO) calls 80, 3 players fold

Flop: (300) K♦ 6♣ 8♣ (3 players)
DFS3 (UTG) checks, FeedMeSeymore (MP+1) checks, 1MilhaoSemNada (CO) checks

Turn: (300) 3♦ (3 players)
DFS3 (UTG) bets 40, FeedMeSeymore (MP+1) raises to 325, 1MilhaoSemNada (CO) calls 325, DFS3 (UTG) calls 285

River: (1,275) 3♣ (3 players)
DFS3 (UTG) checks, FeedMeSeymore (MP+1) bets 1,925 (all-in), 1MilhaoSemNada (CO) raises to 3,850, DFS3 (UTG) calls 2,050 (all-in)

Total pot: 7,300

Showdown:
1MilhaoSemNada (CO) shows 5♣ 7♣ (a flush, Eight high)
(Equity - Pre-Flop: 15%, Flop: 44%, Turn: 31%, River: 0%)

FeedMeSeymore (MP+1) shows 6♥ 6♦ (a full house, Sixes full of Threes)
(Equity - Pre-Flop: 16%, Flop: 4%, Turn: 2%, River: 0%)

DFS3 (UTG) shows K♥ K♣ (a full house, Kings full of Threes)
(Equity - Pre-Flop: 69%, Flop: 52%, Turn: 67%, River: 100%)

DFS3 (UTG) wins 7,300

 

[fundiver199]

Preflop
When someone have already entered the pot, then you need a stronger hand to enter behind, than you would need to open from their position. This mean, that in this situation your range should be tighther than your UTG opening range. Your UTG opening range should not contain small suited 1-gappers, so this hand is a very easy fold. Playing to many hands from early position or against early position opens are one of the biggest leaks in poker. Just for clarification defending the big blind would be fine, because then you are getting a really good price and closing action.

Flop
You flopped a huge combodraw, and I would start betting to begin a multistreet bluff and build the pot for, when you improve especially to a straight.

Turn
You brick and now you face a fishy min-bet and a very large almost pot-sized raise. This is sort of gross and actually a very close decision. On one side you still have a bunch of outs. But on the other side you are getting a terrible price with just one more card to come, and all your outs are not clean. Someone could have a better flushdraw, or someone could have a set, in which case 3c or Kc will be very bad cards for you. I dont blame you for calling, but I actually think folding would be fine and clearly a lower variance route. Its different, if you were facing a more normal bet like half pot. Then of course its a call all day long as played on the flop.

River
You make a flush on a paired board, and now one of the opponents overbet jam. I think, this is actually a fold. Its not just that the board is paired. You also essentially have the nut low flush, and he is clearly representing at least a flush. You also have to worry about the other guy, who after all called a pot sized bet on the turn, after you had called already. I know, it sounds extreme to make a flush and then fold it, but I dont think, you are good here 40% of the time, which you need to make the call. And this is part of the reason why, your hand should have been folded preflop and if not then probably also on the turn as played.

 

[300HPGOD]

I agree with a lot of Fundiver said above. I only slightly differ on the turn as I think it is a fold and not a close fold but I am also a nit so maybe that is clouding me. Btw, before I forget to point it out, Fundivers point about the flop is incredibly important. When we flop a big combo hand we need to betting or raising not only to get more chips into the pot in case we hit it but also as an avenue to "give a good story" to our villains so they will fold to us more often when we dont hit it.

On the turn I dont think this is a call and dont think it is close (although solvers depending on what range you give others could have this either way I guess). It blows when we are in these spots and we think we should be folding but you have to look at the bet sizes here and think about what they mean. The min bet to me never in a million years would make me think they have top set but it would make me think they could have a diamond draw and are going overboard on a blocker bet to get to the river cheaply. Two diamonds wouldnt scare me or make me fold alone but it would have me thinking that now those are two of my straight outs that are gone now. The large bet from the villain number 2 has me thinking big hand that they slowplayed on the flop. Two pair on the flop probably wouldnt slow play often on a suited and connected board so I am thinking here it is a set a lot with some playing a flush draw like this or the 3 made their hand two pair. Either way we could be fighting uphill here if we are already going against a good made hand and then also another flush draw which impedes our straight draw.

On the river you have a flush yes but unless your opponent has 42 of clubs you have the low flush. I also look at bet sizing here and I dont think villain 2 is jamming with 1.5x pot bet when they dont have either a flush or a boat. Jamming on a board that is paired and has 3 to a flush when you only have a total of two pair is crazy. I know this is a freeroll and some might do it but I wouldnt count on it and add that to what I thought about the turn sizing and my conclusion would be Im up against a boat here. Again, would have never guessed I was up against two boats here but I think the one you should have felt was very possible and folded.

 

[I Live Poker]

Preflop
When someone have already entered the pot, then you need a stronger hand to enter behind, than you would need to open from their position. This mean, that in this situation your range should be tighther than your UTG opening range. Your UTG opening range should not contain small suited 1-gappers, so this hand is a very easy fold. Playing to many hands from early position or against early position opens are one of the biggest leaks in poker. Just for clarification defending the big blind would be fine, because then you are getting a really good price and closing action.

Flop
You flopped a huge combodraw, and I would start betting to begin a multistreet bluff and build the pot for, when you improve especially to a straight.

Turn
You brick and now you face a fishy min-bet and a very large almost pot-sized raise. This is sort of gross and actually a very close decision. On one side you still have a bunch of outs. But on the other side you are getting a terrible price with just one more card to come, and all your outs are not clean. Someone could have a better flushdraw, or someone could have a set, in which case 3c or Kc will be very bad cards for you. I dont blame you for calling, but I actually think folding would be fine and clearly a lower variance route. Its different, if you were facing a more normal bet like half pot. Then of course its a call all day long as played on the flop.

River
You make a flush on a paired board, and now one of the opponents overbet jam. I think, this is actually a fold. Its not just that the board is paired. You also essentially have the nut low flush, and he is clearly representing at least a flush. You also have to worry about the other guy, who after all called a pot sized bet on the turn, after you had called already. I know, it sounds extreme to make a flush and then fold it, but I dont think, you are good here 40% of the time, which you need to make the call. And this is part of the reason why, your hand should have been folded preflop and if not then probably also on the turn as played.

thanks friend, it is true the fold pre flop solved everything!
But it's an interesting spot, isn't it?
I ended up paying river because I wouldn't fall out of the tournament then ...

 

[I Live Poker]

I agree with a lot of Fundiver said above. I only slightly differ on the turn as I think it is a fold and not a close fold but I am also a nit so maybe that is clouding me. Btw, before I forget to point it out, Fundivers point about the flop is incredibly important. When we flop a big combo hand we need to betting or raising not only to get more chips into the pot in case we hit it but also as an avenue to "give a good story" to our villains so they will fold to us more often when we dont hit it.

On the turn I dont think this is a call and dont think it is close (although solvers depending on what range you give others could have this either way I guess). It blows when we are in these spots and we think we should be folding but you have to look at the bet sizes here and think about what they mean. The min bet to me never in a million years would make me think they have top set but it would make me think they could have a diamond draw and are going overboard on a blocker bet to get to the river cheaply. Two diamonds wouldnt scare me or make me fold alone but it would have me thinking that now those are two of my straight outs that are gone now. The large bet from the villain number 2 has me thinking big hand that they slowplayed on the flop. Two pair on the flop probably wouldnt slow play often on a suited and connected board so I am thinking here it is a set a lot with some playing a flush draw like this or the 3 made their hand two pair. Either way we could be fighting uphill here if we are already going against a good made hand and then also another flush draw which impedes our straight draw.

On the river you have a flush yes but unless your opponent has 42 of clubs you have the low flush. I also look at bet sizing here and I dont think villain 2 is jamming with 1.5x pot bet when they dont have either a flush or a boat. Jamming on a board that is paired and has 3 to a flush when you only have a total of two pair is crazy. I know this is a freeroll and some might do it but I wouldnt count on it and add that to what I thought about the turn sizing and my conclusion would be Im up against a boat here. Again, would have never guessed I was up against two boats here but I think the one you should have felt was very possible and folded.

Hello, it's amazing how our games are opposite,, as you said, you are NIT and I LOSSE agressive. But I fully agree with your game and the point of view is very consistent. Now turning my hand ...
Another question was really about not donkbetting the flop, I usually bet, but as it was very deep and I had hit too much before and got hit often, I decided to check, since my hand had a lot of equity to make. I disagree with the information about them being in the range they were in, I don't think they would have gone from the check flop, and not even with a flush draw nuts. But it was really a mistake not to bet the flop, they would probably tribute me and I would have the information I needed to let go. On the river I ended up calling, because after all I was still playing for the flush or straight and would not compromise my tournament, so that was it.

 

[fundiver199]

Just for clarification a donk bet means leading into the previous street aggressor. In this case Hero had position in the hand, so Hero was not able to make a donk bet on any street. If Hero had bet the flop, it would just be a bet. The preflop aggressor gave up the initiative by checking the flop, and then by betting in position Hero would have taken it over.

As 300HPGOD said already, betting the flop is not only to build the pot or for immediate fold equity, even though its totally fine, if they both fold. Its also to begin telling a story, you flopped some kind of big hand, so that you can get them to fold later. This is crucially important, when you have 7 high, because unless you improve, you have no showdown value at all.

Lets say for instance, that the in between player has 97 of hearts for a better straightdraw. Then if everything bricks out, he is going to fold that hand if not on the turn then for sure on the river. If you are going to enter pots in position with speculative hands like 75s, you NEED to play them with aggression. This is the whole point of having such hands in your range, because it allows you to be balanced, so that you are not always having value, when you bet.

Sure one can argue, that this is a freeroll, and people are just not going to fold, so why bluff them. But that is only half the story. They are at least going to fold their busted draws on the river, so tripple barreling a hand like this for say 50% pot on the river is almost certainly going to be profitable. And at least some players will also fold a weak pair to a tripple barrel. Its just, that we get to see it, when someone makes a ridiculous call down with bottom pair, but we dont get to see it, when they fold.

 

[I Live Poker]

Just for clarification a donk bet means leading into the previous street aggressor. In this case Hero had position in the hand, so Hero was not able to make a donk bet on any street. If Hero had bet the flop, it would just be a bet. The preflop aggressor gave up the initiative by checking the flop, and then by betting in position Hero would have taken it over.

As 300HPGOD said already, betting the flop is not only to build the pot or for immediate fold equity, even though its totally fine, if they both fold. Its also to begin telling a story, you flopped some kind of big hand, so that you can get them to fold later. This is crucially important, when you have 7 high, because unless you improve, you have no showdown value at all.

Lets say for instance, that the in between player has 97 of hearts for a better straightdraw. Then if everything bricks out, he is going to fold that hand if not on the turn then for sure on the river. If you are going to enter pots in position with speculative hands like 75s, you NEED to play them with aggression. This is the whole point of having such hands in your range, because it allows you to be balanced, so that you are not always having value, when you bet.

Sure one can argue, that this is a freeroll, and people are just not going to fold, so why bluff them. But that is only half the story. They are at least going to fold their busted draws on the river, so tripple barreling a hand like this for say 50% pot on the river is almost certainly going to be profitable. And at least some players will also fold a weak pair to a tripple barrel. Its just, that we get to see it, when someone makes a ridiculous call down with bottom pair, but we dont get to see it, when they fold.

I have no words to thank!
your analyzes are perfect just like those of 300HPGOD!
By the way you play very well fundiver199, you are extremely strong at the tables!


The only issue I don't agree with regarding being aggressive on the post flop is this: Pre flop I played flat in position, from an UTG openraise. So I think I threw my range in the trash, so I think it's kind of weird that I'm the aggressor, although the board is right in my flat range in final positions. But in summary, you're right, the whole mistake was the pre call flop.

 

[Vilgeoforc]

You have a combo draw on the flop and should be played more aggressively in the przion, if only to get information about the opponent's hand. Call on the turn. And on the river, given the opponents' stacks, it is also a good decision.