$Freeroll NLHE MTT Deep Stacked: Should i check/raise the turn for value?

PINOY

PINOY

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888Poker, Hold'em No Limit - 75/150 (15 ante) - 9 players
Replay this hand on CardsChat

aimtj (UTG): 13,121 (87 bb)
spenhelling. (UTG+1): 4,255 (28 bb)
Blitzyboy10 (MP): 4,245 (28 bb)
Danimuringa (MP+1): 10,433 (70 bb)
PINOY_HITMAN (LP): 21,320 (142 bb)
Fenix1284 (CO): 5,854 (39 bb)
BabyB.M.G (BU): 12,939 (86 bb)
pestman1 (SB): 7,509 (50 bb)
redeye232323 (BB): 4,245 (28 bb)

Pre-Flop: (360) Hero (PINOY_HITMAN) is LP with Q Q
aimtj (UTG) raises to 405, 3 players fold, PINOY_HITMAN (LP) 3-bets to 1,215, 1 fold, BabyB.M.G (BU) calls 1,215, 2 players fold, aimtj (UTG) calls 810

Flop: (4,005) 7 5 8 (3 players)
aimtj (UTG) checks, PINOY_HITMAN (LP) bets 1,602, BabyB.M.G (BU) calls 1,602, aimtj (UTG) calls 1,602

Turn: (8,811) 7 (3 players)
aimtj (UTG) checks, PINOY_HITMAN (LP) bets 3,524, 2 players fold

Total pot: 8,811
PINOY_HITMAN (LP) wins 8,811
 
Jon Poker

Jon Poker

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Hell no don't check raise turn! What are you hoping to accomplish by doing that? What are you trying to pull value from by doing that? 8x? The incomplete draws? Just isn't much to be pulling value from on this board.

When we x/r the turn here its simply a spot where most of the time we get better to call us and worse to fold out. 7x is never folding, made straights are never folding - there's very little 8x in either villans range and the draws are not going to pay you off for a hit turn raise.

To be quite honest when the turn pairs 7s - i would check with the intent to call as 7x should continue on this flop for your cbet sizing and their relative hand strength is too good to fold for one bet. That being said - its also going to be hard to get two streets from much here as well (we've been over why) - so when we check turn and we go to the river - we may even induce some bets that we can call and if a 7x is involved in the hand then we lose the minimum by pot controlling and going to the river.

YES - if you check turn sometimes the straight cards come and complete on the river - STOP being results oriented and looking for the monsters under the bed! Don't fear the reaper - making the correct play will allow you to print money long term - and when bad cards fall or very polarizing raises occur - you need to be disciplined enough to fold some strong hands when time calls for it. Such discipline can set the bar to that next level for many players.
 
PINOY

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Thanks Jon Poker for your insightful analysis.
 
3

300HPGOD

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No on the check raise. Everything that is a made hand will be calling the turn that called the flop. You wouldnt want to check here and run the risk of the villain having A9, A6 or AK and checking behind getting to see a free card. Much better to bet there as you did. I generally like the sizing of the turn bet as well although you could probably go a little bigger given that you had two flop callers but all in all I think a well played hand.
 
jaworek1405

jaworek1405

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Hello, I think that hero played this hand good. I don't like playing check with over pair on low flop, because opponent behind you can play check and he can see the river card for free. Later on the river can come not good card for pocket QQ, especially ace or king and we will have hard decision on the river. King and ace is possible in opponent's range. It is a bit risky move to slow play pocket QQ versus 2 opponents on the turn. In freeroll tournament is sometimes possible that opponent call your 3bet pre flop with weak cards. Some straight draws are also possible here, so better play bet on the turn to protect our over pair. GL :)
 
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fundiver199

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I think, that this was a well played hand, and that a turn checkraise would have been for no good reason. In general a checkraise should serve one of the following purposes:

1) Enable us to get stacks inside with a very strong hand
2) Get the chips in earlier on draw heavy boards
3) Gain the initiative
4) Get better hands to fold (bluff)

In this hand none of this really apply. Because its a 3-bet pot we can easily get stacks inside by simply betting all three streets, and we already have the initiative. We are obviously also not bluffing, and finally while some draws are present, we dont need to freak out that much about suited connectors and stuff in a 3-bet pot.

Our hand is also not so strong, that we absolutely must play for stacks. By betting out again on the turn we charge draws, we charge worse made hands like 99-JJ and we also leave ourself an option to still get away, if the action and/or river card is unfavourable. Them folding on the turn is not a bad outcome at all. If we get to much turn action, we can quickly end up in a situation, where we need to consider, if we actually have the best hand.
 
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eetenor

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888Poker, Hold'em No Limit - 75/150 (15 ante) - 9 players
Replay this hand on CardsChat

aimtj (UTG): 13,121 (87 bb)
spenhelling. (UTG+1): 4,255 (28 bb)
Blitzyboy10 (MP): 4,245 (28 bb)
Danimuringa (MP+1): 10,433 (70 bb)
PINOY_HITMAN (LP): 21,320 (142 bb)
Fenix1284 (CO): 5,854 (39 bb)
BabyB.M.G (BU): 12,939 (86 bb)
pestman1 (SB): 7,509 (50 bb)
redeye232323 (BB): 4,245 (28 bb)

Pre-Flop: (360) Hero (PINOY_HITMAN) is LP with Q Q
aimtj (UTG) raises to 405, 3 players fold, PINOY_HITMAN (LP) 3-bets to 1,215, 1 fold, BabyB.M.G (BU) calls 1,215, 2 players fold, aimtj (UTG) calls 810

Flop: (4,005) 7 5 8 (3 players)
aimtj (UTG) checks, PINOY_HITMAN (LP) bets 1,602, BabyB.M.G (BU) calls 1,602, aimtj (UTG) calls 1,602

Turn: (8,811) 7 (3 players)
aimtj (UTG) checks, PINOY_HITMAN (LP) bets 3,524, 2 players fold

Total pot: 8,811
PINOY_HITMAN (LP) wins 8,811


Thank U 4 posting

It is important here that we have 2 villains not one.

What this would suggest to the third player in the pot when we check is that any 8x hand they hold should check as the early player could very well have 99+, they did after all call a 3 bet pre and over call the flop.

So if you want to adjust your bet sizing and believe you will call off any V shoves as both V have only Spr of 1.25 you could shove here. That may make TT think you want a fold.

Small bets are not effective here as AK has an easier call to suckout.

Hope this helps
:)
 
erik_lima

erik_lima

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I would play the same way. I liked the sizes that you made on all streets.
 
B

BatOneHat

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What?

Pocket Qs with nothing higher on the board. Just right.

Hell no don't check raise turn! What are you hoping to accomplish by doing that? What are you trying to pull value from by doing that? 8x? The incomplete draws? Just isn't much to be pulling value from on this board.

When we x/r the turn here its simply a spot where most of the time we get better to call us and worse to fold out. 7x is never folding, made straights are never folding - there's very little 8x in either villans range and the draws are not going to pay you off for a hit turn raise.

To be quite honest when the turn pairs 7s - i would check with the intent to call as 7x should continue on this flop for your cbet sizing and their relative hand strength is too good to fold for one bet. That being said - its also going to be hard to get two streets from much here as well (we've been over why) - so when we check turn and we go to the river - we may even induce some bets that we can call and if a 7x is involved in the hand then we lose the minimum by pot controlling and going to the river.

YES - if you check turn sometimes the straight cards come and complete on the river - STOP being results oriented and looking for the monsters under the bed! Don't fear the reaper - making the correct play will allow you to print money long term - and when bad cards fall or very polarizing raises occur - you need to be disciplined enough to fold some strong hands when time calls for it. Such discipline can set the bar to that next level for many players.
 
marvinsytan

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PH
perfect play Pinoy just keep bet bet bet for value
 
PINOY

PINOY

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Thank you @fundiver199 @eetenor @erik lima @BatOneHat @marvinsytan for all your inputs.
 
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