This is a discussion on $Freeroll NLHE MTT: Bet flop here or played ok? within the online poker forums, in the Tournament Hand Analysis section; Hi all,
Hand from the freeroll today. Folds to CO who limps, I raise 3x with As9h, SB and CO call.
Flop comes 9s 8c 5c
Hand from the freeroll today. Folds to CO who limps, I raise 3x with As9h, SB and CO call.
Flop comes 9s 8c 5c and it checks around.
Turn is 3s, CO bets 3 BB, I call and SB folds.
River 6c, CO bets 5BB and I call. Felt as if he would have bet the flop or larger on the turn and/or river and was most likely value betting a worse pair. I wonder if I should have bet the flop with top pair, was cautious of board texture and it being 3 handed but given I had position would betting have been better?
PokerStars Hand #216984828781: Tournament #2868217837, Freeroll Hold'em No Limit - Level V (75/150) - 2020/07/31 20:51:40 WET [2020/07/31 15:51:40 ET]
Table '2868217837 16' 9-max Seat #8 is the button
Seat 1: skaniol (2620 in chips)
Seat 2: Parkez - 73 (2345 in chips) is sitting out
Seat 3: GRIDIM1927 (8688 in chips)
Seat 4: Lena Del M (4305 in chips)
Seat 5: rui612016 (3278 in chips)
Seat 6: loniflu (2785 in chips)
Seat 7: MARHOR (9176 in chips)
Seat 8: nwhitney118 (4218 in chips)
Seat 9: Anders1616 (17854 in chips)
Anders1616: posts small blind 75
skaniol: posts big blind 150
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to nwhitney118 [As 9h]
Parkez - 73: folds
Lena Del M: folds
MARHOR: calls 150
nwhitney118: raises 300 to 450
Anders1616: calls 375
MARHOR: calls 300
*** FLOP *** [9s 8c 5c]
*** TURN *** [9s 8c 5c] 3♠
MARHOR: bets 450
nwhitney118: calls 450
*** RIVER *** [9s 8c 5c 3s] 6♣
MARHOR: bets 750
nwhitney118: calls 750
*** SHOW DOWN ***
MARHOR: shows [Tc Jc] (a flush, Jack high)
nwhitney118: mucks hand
MARHOR collected 3900 from pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 3900 | Rake 0
Board [9s 8c 5c 3s 6c]
Seat 1: skaniol (big blind) folded before Flop
Seat 2: Parkez - 73 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 3: GRIDIM1927 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 4: Lena Del M folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 5: rui612016 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 6: loniflu folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 7: MARHOR showed [Tc Jc] and won (3900) with a flush, Jack high
Seat 8: nwhitney118 (button) mucked [As 9h]
Seat 9: Anders1616 (small blind) folded on the Turn
I will start with the pre flop raise which I think is fine however, depending on how aggressive the blinds are I dont think over limping is terrible either. If my memory serves me correctly villain is someone that is like a 52/5 player but I could be wrong about that and not sure if you had a HUD in game or not.
On the flop I think you should be betting here for two reasons. One is that even though you have top pair top kicker your hand is vulnerable to an overcard coming on the turn that is not an ace. A bet here will take it down a lot and with the hand strength that we currently have, I dont mind just taking it down right now. Secondly, I would bet here because of how wet the board is. I wouldt not want to give two players a free card on a board like this when I have flopped top pair. Plus since it is there is a limp caller in pay whose range could be wide if my memory is right they would call with 8x or 5x hands here.
On the turn, villain leads out which could mean many things since we did not bet the flop. Since this is bet is only 1/3rd pot I actually like raising this turn here. I would do a 2.5x to 3x raise here since my hand could still be best, I protect the equity that I have, I charge a draw a bit more to see the river, and maybe most importantly I am going to make villain define their hand here and their lead action on the river. My hope would be they call my turn raise and then check to me on the river. I can then check behind with my pair and get to showdown. If they re raise me on the turn I am probably folding. If they call my raise turn and then lead on the river then I think that should say something about their hand given what river card came and I would most likely be folding depending on the size. I think a turn raise here will prevent you from having a tougher river decision.
I would raise the flop 1/2 pot, hoping to take it down there. Villain had an open ended straight and flush draw, so would likely call.
When turn is a non factor, I would probably raise at least 1/2 pot, maybe 2/3. Villain might fold, but would probably call again.
River card is a bummer. It completes 7x for straight and clubs for flush. If villain bets, I would likely fold. If villain checks, I check.
I don't see any way you don't lose money in this hand. With my play, you would have lost more (probably).
Sounding like a broken record here, but raising to only 3BB over a limp is way to small. You are pricing him in to call you with literally any two cards. The absolutel minimum raise size with one limper in the pot is 4BB. And yes I do want to raise it up here. A9o is not a hand, which play well postflop at all, and even less so in a multiway pot.
You flop top pair top kicker on a wet board. Not betting for value / protection is a pretty big mistake.
You were lucky to get an extremely clean turn card, and now someone leads into you, but its for less than 1/3 of the pot. As played I prefer to raise this up for value and protection. Your hand is certainly good enough for two streets of value, and I prefer to get them now, before the board screw me somehow.
As this hand played out, you had no idea, what was going on, and you kind of had to call, because he might be doing some weird blocker bet with his A8 or K5. If on the other hand you bet flop and bet turn, then you charge him for his draw, and if he donk bets the river, you would have a fairly easy fold. If he check to you again, you check back and get the bad news without paying him off.
The raise might have been bigger on the flop, if your going to raise it’s really to isolate the limper, with A9o it’s not really worth playing a massive pot against the big stack in the small blind. Calling the limp with A9o is a much looser play imo than CO’s JTs limp, which I think is raise worthy and slightly sneaky
The rest of the hand really all depends on what your know about the player, you only have a bluff catcher at best, against straights and flushes, which do complete by the river. I’d be asking myself when is the best time for me to fold in future spots and I’d probably think the best spot to fold preflop.
Or like me, you can just rip it all in on the flop or play super aggressive, reraising and such.
they either have it or they don’t
As already mentioned preflop size needs to be bigger
On the flop in position this is a mandatory bet your giving over cards and draws a free chance to hit
On the turn we have to raise it up now as played however don't think he's going to lead out if you had bet the flop he is setting the price to hit his draw. You could also get value out of worse 9x
River card is bad for you and if checked to take your showdown value and get the bad news. As played I think you have to call as he could be overvaluing 8x or worse 9x he doesn't always have flushes here
With his exact hand I don't think he's going anywhere even if you bet flop and turn but it's the right play
Take this all with a grain of salt but it looks like it matches the consensus; just filling in some more of the reasoning that made these things click for me:
- 3 bet is too small with a limper, because it's giving both SB and CO great pod odds to call with just about anything.
- Bet the flop to protect your equity in it - you have TPTK and you want to protect it. By checking the flop, you're giving them a free shot at getting there with an overcard or draw.
- Think about raising this turn if you already showed weakness on the flop - they might be taking a stab at the pot to see if nobody else is interested, they might be trying to build equity because the 3 gave them some kind of draw, they might have hit a set or some kind of hidden monster and jam over you (and then you can think about probably folding). Either way, raising seems better if you've already checked. There's also another flush and some straight draws with the 3 you're giving a cheap shot at completing.
- As played, I think I'm folding river. A lot of draws have gotten there and villain is now value betting into us - but if you're more aggressive on earlier streets, we shouldn't have even been here. edit: or, we'd at least have gotten our money in when we were ahead - which is better long-term.
re: Poker & $Freeroll NLHE MTT: Bet flop here or played ok?
Hello, I agree with guys who think that pre flop raise should be bigger. When CO limps, standard raise is about 2x or 3x and then we should raise 3x + 1bb for every limp pre flop, so here you should raise at least 4bb. If I good see CO is one of the big stack at the table, so if we play against bigger stack that our stack I prefer bigger raise than standard, in this situation more than 4x, something like 5bb or 6bb. The flop seems to be a little dangeorus and we should be play carefully, but I think we should mandatory bet for value, because on the flop we often have the best hand, TPTK. As played - I think hero did a small mistake on the flop when he checks the flop and later hero has harder decision on the river, because of possible flush on the river. So in this situation better bet on the flop, because we don't to give free card for our opponents, but as I said we should be careful.