First Hand in $6 SnG

jayneseo

jayneseo

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Before game started villian goes "Everyone all in preflop"

Stage #677920025 Tourney ID 66031 Holdem Single Tournament No Limit $20 - 2007-03-15 00:35:25 (ET)
Table: 12370675 (real money) Seat #2 is the dealer
Seat 1 - BOSOX5104 ($1500 in chips)
Seat 2 - RONNIED7 ($1500 in chips)
Seat 3 - ZACH7777 ($1500 in chips)
Seat 4 - MAVERICK50X ($1500 in chips)
Seat 5 - JAYNESEO ($1500 in chips)
Seat 6 - POKERMON184 ($1500 in chips)
Seat 7 - PUTTETHEKID ($1500 in chips)
Seat 8 - C_DEEZNUTZ ($1500 in chips)
Seat 9 - TWOEYEJAC ($1500 in chips)
ZACH7777 - Posts small blind $10
MAVERICK50X - Posts big blind $20
*** POCKET CARDS ***
Dealt to JAYNESEO [10d Ad]
JAYNESEO - Raises $120 to $120
POKERMON184 - Folds
PUTTETHEKID - Folds
C_DEEZNUTZ - Calls $120
TWOEYEJAC - Folds
BOSOX5104 - Folds
RONNIED7 - Folds
ZACH7777 - Calls $110
MAVERICK50X - Folds
*** FLOP *** [8d Jd 10h]
ZACH7777 - Checks
JAYNESEO - Bets $380
C_DEEZNUTZ - All-In(Raise) $1380 to $1380
ZACH7777 - Folds
JAYNESEO- ??????
 
jayneseo

jayneseo

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I should add that I have been drinking....
 
hott_estelle

hott_estelle

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Uh, are you serious?

Fold.

Even if the villain is an idiot and pushing with nothing, there's no point in risking your chip stack this early in the SnG. You havn't lost much at all to affect your play, this early in the SnG, blinds are very very manageable. Even if you did catch him, and you call and win, you double your stack I know, but there's no point in risking your entire stack on basically a flush draw.

Unless of course that's just your style. My advice play your normal game. If that was me in the hand, I fold there, also I probably don't bet out the $380 on the flop either. I wouldn't have played it this way.

But short answer, fold.
 
jayneseo

jayneseo

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With second pair top kicker plus nut flush draw against someone that said they are going all in no matter what you would fold?

What hand do you put him on?
 
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ychennay

ychennay

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Even if you did catch him, and you call and win, you double your stack I know, but there's no point in risking your entire stack on basically a nut flush draw.
He's already committed almost 1/3 of your chips into this pot. If he folds, he's fighting an uphill battle to reach the final table. He's got middle pair, top kicker and a flush draw. You have to like his chances, even if the guy has a set.

I would call in this case, and even if I busted out first hand, I wouldn't be too upset. I would think of it as this: unless I know I'm better than everyone, this is probably my best chance at winning.

There are 9 people in the SnG. Assuming each one is roughly equal skill level, you have approximately 11% chance of winning. If he has a set or two pair, I'm guessing you're something like a 40/60 dog. And basically doubling up will almost ensure your chance of getting to the final table if you don't implode. So 40% vs. 11%, I'd take it.

You also have ask if this guy actually has anything at all. I would consider the fact that he might have A-K or K-Q or even Q-Q, senses weakness on your part(or that you have A-J and made top pair, top kicker) and is trying to take the pot down right now.
 
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hott_estelle

hott_estelle

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1000 chips is plenty to come back on.

I think at this point, I would fold, considering this.

But I still think you didn't play it correctly on the flop, betting 380, you're asking to commit yourself to the pot in a few bets with just mid-pair and flush draw. The mistake was made on the flop, with your bet, but considering that we can't go back in time, 1000 chips is plenty to play with on 10/20 blinds, unless you just want to push it in.

First mistake you made was raising it 6xBB with just A10 while being UTG, when you know there is someone that might just be donking off his chips with an all-in. Even, in normal conditions, UTG raising 6xBB with A10 is a losing play in most situations. It is a marginal hand at best in most positions, and UTG it loses even more value. Also, someone else could have actually had a legitimate hand, besides the villain, and pushed over you or flat called, and pushed the flop. The A10 raise UTG is what gets you into this horrible mess.
 
P

Prolaznik

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I think you have to call. You have more than 2:1 pot odds, which is about enough, even if he shows you 3 jacks. And he can be much weaker...
 
Dorkus Malorkus

Dorkus Malorkus

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2130 pot, 1000 to call, so we're only getting a little over 2:1 on a call.

The fact that he really could have all sorts of anything, including lots of weak draws plus the fact that we still have outs if we are behind leads me to like calling this.

But please, please fold preflop.
 
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K

Kennyseven

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I would have to agree on a call here. I agree with Estelle about the raise preflop. A min raise would do just fine here. I really dont agree with folding here. I dont know what kind of bankroll you are playing with but if I did catch myself in this situation I would call always with just 6 on the line.
 
hott_estelle

hott_estelle

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I would have to agree on a call here. I agree with Estelle about the raise preflop. A min raise would do just fine here. I really dont agree with folding here. I dont know what kind of bankroll you are playing with but if I did catch myself in this situation I would call always with just 6 on the line.

I can't agree with the min-raise from UTG? Not unless you're being real creative, or don't mind losing the chips, min-rasing from early position, or in any case most of the time, is like giving away money. It doesn't accomplish much, not in this situation. I think min-raising would be horrible.

The mistake was made on the play preflop, and then magnified on the flop with that big, unnecessary bet.

Personally, I would still fold, but then again I wouldn't play this hand like this at all, so I don't think I'd be in the situation to make a judgment on this hand. I would fold, but the call isn't horrible now, because of the pot odds like mentioned above and because you may believe you're ahead, but that is only because of---and I'll stress it again---a horrible play at best preflop to raise with A10 UTG first hand and all (and in most situations UTG this play should never be made, ever, it is a losing play in the long run), and then an unwise play again on the flop.
 
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K

Kennyseven

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I can't agree with the min-raise from UTG? Not unless you're being real creative, or don't mind losing the chips, min-rasing from early position, or in any case most of the time, is like giving away money. It doesn't accomplish much, not in this situation. I think min-raising would be horrible.

The mistake was made on the play preflop, and then magnified on the flop with that big, unnecessary bet.

Personally, I would still fold, but then again I wouldn't play this hand like this at all, so I don't think I'd be in the situation to make a judgment on this hand. I would fold, but the call isn't horrible now, because of the pot odds like mentioned above and because you may believe you're ahead, but that is only because of---and I'll stress it again---a horrible play at best preflop to raise with A10 UTG first hand and all (and in most situations UTG this play should never be made, ever, it is a losing play in the long run), and then an unwise play again on the flop.


I personally would not play A 10 pre-flop UTG. Unless I was playing in a tourney for some time to let me play a creative style. But my thinking here goes back to what the villain said at the beginning. A min raise here might scare off enough people to at best be heads up with this hand. But that is just my opinion on this situation.
 
jayneseo

jayneseo

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I personally would not play A 10 pre-flop UTG. Unless I was playing in a tourney for some time to let me play a creative style. But my thinking here goes back to what the villain said at the beginning. A min raise here might scare off enough people to at best be heads up with this hand. But that is just my opinion on this situation.

Under normal circumstance it's not a hand I would play in this situation or this way. But...... because of the pregame comment, and the likelyhood of this guy being a huge donk and meaning it, this was my thought exactly.
 
jayneseo

jayneseo

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These games take a BIG preflop raise to get rid of most of the idiots that call with nothing. Even then you have some, so that's my reasoning for a 6bb raise preflop.
 
Dorkus Malorkus

Dorkus Malorkus

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So if villain shoves preflop you're calling? Uhoh...

Re. the 6bb raise - you want people to be calling your raises with nothing! Well, you should want people to be calling with nothing if you weren't raising with next-to-nothing in the first place. :p
 
jayneseo

jayneseo

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JAYNESEO - All-In $1000
*** TURN *** [8d Jd 10h] [9d]
*** RIVER *** [8d Jd 10h 9d] [7s]
*** SHOW DOWN ***
JAYNESEO - Shows [10d Ad] (Flush, ace high)
C_DEEZNUTZ - Shows [Jh Ks] (Straight, seven to jack)
JAYNESEO Collects $3140 from main pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total Pot($3140)
Board [8d Jd 10h 9d 7s]
Seat 1: BOSOX5104 Folded on the POCKET CARDS
Seat 2: RONNIED7 (dealer) Folded on the POCKET CARDS
Seat 3: ZACH7777 (small blind) Folded on the FLOP
Seat 4: MAVERICK50X (big blind) Folded on the POCKET CARDS
Seat 5: JAYNESEO won Total ($3140) All-In HI:($3140) with Flush, ace high [10d
Ad - P:Ad,B:Jd,P:10d,B:9d,B:8d]
Seat 6: POKERMON184 Folded on the POCKET CARDS
Seat 7: PUTTETHEKID Folded on the POCKET CARDS
Seat 8: C_DEEZNUTZ HI:lost with Straight, seven to jack [Jh Ks -
P:Jh,B:10h,B:9d,B:8d,B:7s]
Seat 9: TWOEYEJAC Folded on the POCKET CARDS


So it worked out for me and actually I won the whole SnG but without that pregame comment and a 6 pack of Sam Adams I wouln't have made the play to begin with.
I do agree with estelle that 1000 chips is plenty to come back and win though. Have done it with less.
 
A

alan1983

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Dunno about preflop but id def call flop.

You have: 3 aces + 2 tens + 9 diamonds = 14 outs against top pair with no ace kicker.

12 against ace jack.

14 against QQ or KK.

9 against a set.

Youre ahead of a draw, which could be part of his range too.
 
XxJackAcexX

XxJackAcexX

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i would have folded! but when i fold something like that it usuallys hits on the internet! in live play that don't happen! lol ( rare ) but you made your decision and it worked! congrats and keep it up! just remeber it can go either way in a situation like that! but stick with your judgement, all of us can only give opinions lol ( cause were not in your seat ) good luck at the tables
 
Lo-Dog

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2130 pot, 1380 to call, so we're only getting a little over 1.5:1 on a call.

The fact that he really could have all sorts of anything, including lots of weak draws plus the fact that we still have outs if we are behind leads me to like calling this though.

But please, please fold preflop.

Correct me if I am wrong, which I probably am, but is it not a 2130 pot and a 1000 to call, giving better than 2-1 which would make this a justifiable call?
 
Dorkus Malorkus

Dorkus Malorkus

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yeah you're right, edited my post.

in my defense it was 9am when i originally posted that~~
 
blankoblanco

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Once we get ourselves into this position, getting the odds we're getting, I think it's a mistake to not call.
 
jayneseo

jayneseo

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Show the value in keeping your mouth shut at the table I guess
 
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