Early stages of a MTT, curious hand...

Mr Alacran

Mr Alacran

Enthusiast
Joined
Apr 7, 2007
Total posts
39
full tilt poker Game #6772489015: $1 Tournament (51374056), Table 18 - 25/50 - No Limit Hold'em - 16:36:59 ET - 2008/06/10
Seat 1: EL TOBE (3,490)
Seat 2: Mr Alacran (6,370)
Seat 3: deitrasmith (5,000)
Seat 4: barboosch (7,490)
Seat 5: Tigula (3,080), is sitting out
Seat 6: Palsh (1,400)
Seat 7: cincykid369 (1,470), is sitting out
Seat 8: xLeMoNHeADx53 (1,515)
Seat 9: furbacchione (1,505)
barboosch posts the small blind of 25
Tigula posts the big blind of 50
The button is in seat #3
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to Mr Alacran [??]
Palsh raises to 150
cincykid369 folds
xLeMoNHeADx53 folds
furbacchione folds
EL TOBE folds
Mr Alacran has been disconnected
Mr Alacran has 15 seconds left to act
Mr Alacran raises to 400
Mr Alacran has reconnected
deitrasmith folds
barboosch raises to 1,350
Tigula folds
Palsh has 15 seconds left to act
Palsh folds
Mr Alacran calls 950
*** FLOP *** [4d Qs Jd]
barboosch bets 2,900
Mr Alacran has 15 seconds left to act
Mr Alacran: this is going to be a sick laydown
Mr Alacran folds
Uncalled bet of 2,900 returned to barboosch
barboosch mucks
barboosch wins the pot (2,900)
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 2,900 | Rake 0
Board: [4d Qs Jd]
Seat 1: EL TOBE didn't bet (folded)
Seat 2: Mr Alacran folded on the Flop
Seat 3: deitrasmith (button) didn't bet (folded)
Seat 4: barboosch (small blind) collected (2,900), mucked
Seat 5: Tigula (big blind) folded before the Flop
Seat 6: Palsh folded before the Flop
Seat 7: cincykid369 didn't bet (folded)
Seat 8: xLeMoNHeADx53 didn't bet (folded)
Seat 9: furbacchione didn't bet (folded)

I had a really bad smell about this hand, so I chose to fold after the flop. Question is: What does the other guy have? What is the range of hands you'd play in my spot pre-flop? And to finish, what do I have?

Appreciate some comments, I'll later post my hand and my thoughts on this situation
 
naruto_miu

naruto_miu

Legend
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Total posts
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I'd say the other dude, either had A/Q, or Qj
 
C

CfPoker

Rock Star
Joined
Jan 21, 2008
Total posts
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Full Tilt Poker Game #6772489015: $1 Tournament (51374056), Table 18 - 25/50 - No Limit Hold'em - 16:36:59 ET - 2008/06/10
Seat 1: EL TOBE (3,490)
Seat 2: Mr Alacran (6,370)
Seat 3: deitrasmith (5,000)
Seat 4: barboosch (7,490) -- You're the 2 big stacks at the table, both with high Ms.
Seat 5: Tigula (3,080), is sitting out
Seat 6: Palsh (1,400)
Seat 7: cincykid369 (1,470), is sitting out
Seat 8: xLeMoNHeADx53 (1,515)
Seat 9: furbacchione (1,505)
barboosch posts the small blind of 25
Tigula posts the big blind of 50
The button is in seat #3
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to Mr Alacran [??]
Palsh raises to 150 -- UTG raise. This should indicate some strength, but this is a $1 tournament so this isn't neccesarily true.
cincykid369 folds
xLeMoNHeADx53 folds
furbacchione folds
EL TOBE folds
Mr Alacran has been disconnected
Mr Alacran has 15 seconds left to act
Mr Alacran raises to 400 -- Reraising an UTG raiser does indicate strength. My range here to do this: QQ+/AK. You could be bullying here with your big stack but I don't think it's really worth doing that at this stage.
Mr Alacran has reconnected
deitrasmith folds
barboosch raises to 1,350 -- This is super strong. He's seen an UTG raise be reraised, and is still happy to raise it up. My range here KK+. Possibly QQ depending on how the table has played, but given how deepstacked I am here I'm probably throwing QQ away.
Tigula folds
Palsh has 15 seconds left to act
Palsh folds
Mr Alacran calls 950You just called. That means you probably have either: 1) AA, hoping to trap. 2) QQ/KK hoping to see no overcards.
*** FLOP *** [4d Qs Jd]
barboosch bets 2,900 At this point I think he has AA. It's a big bet (too big imo) to find out how good his hand is. There's also the possibility here he's overplayed AK and is hoping a bluff will take the pot down.
Mr Alacran has 15 seconds left to act
Mr Alacran: this is going to be a sick laydown
Mr Alacran foldsAnd at this point I think you had KK. If so I think it's a good laydown. QQ/AA are both beating you, as is JJ if he played with that. If he overplayed AK then you'd have been ahead, but I think it's more unlikely he had one of the other hands.
Uncalled bet of 2,900 returned to barboosch
barboosch mucks
barboosch wins the pot (2,900)
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 2,900 | Rake 0
Board: [4d Qs Jd]
Seat 1: EL TOBE didn't bet (folded)
Seat 2: Mr Alacran folded on the Flop
Seat 3: deitrasmith (button) didn't bet (folded)
Seat 4: barboosch (small blind) collected (2,900), mucked
Seat 5: Tigula (big blind) folded before the Flop
Seat 6: Palsh folded before the Flop
Seat 7: cincykid369 didn't bet (folded)
Seat 8: xLeMoNHeADx53 didn't bet (folded)
Seat 9: furbacchione didn't bet (folded)

I had a really bad smell about this hand, so I chose to fold after the flop. Question is: What does the other guy have? What is the range of hands you'd play in my spot pre-flop? And to finish, what do I have?

Appreciate some comments, I'll later post my hand and my thoughts on this situation

Opinions above in red.
 
Mr Alacran

Mr Alacran

Enthusiast
Joined
Apr 7, 2007
Total posts
39
Hey thank you all for your opìnions, specially CFPoker. My thought process was just about the same, and in that hand I held KK.
 
S

switch0723

Cardschat Elite
Joined
Sep 2, 2007
Total posts
8,430
Ship it in preflop ina dollarment please, you will be called by qq,jj,tt,99,88 and lower pairs probably as well as a,k a,q, plenty of times to make shoving this pre flop after the 4 bet standard.

If you think villain has aces, which i presume you do, why have you flat called the 4bet with the intention of folding on flop??? You may aswell fold it to the 4 bet preflop
 
OzExorcist

OzExorcist

Broomcorn's uncle
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Aug 6, 2007
Total posts
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Awards
1
*Agrees with Switch*

The flat call before the flop just doesn't make any sense - I shove it all in there pretty much every single time. If I've got a read that villain is a nit that wouldn't make the move with anything other than AA then maybe I can throw it away, but it's gotta be a very strong read for me to do that.

After that though, it's pretty much impossible to analyse this one meaningfully without more information on the players.

Pre-flop, the standard range for villain in that spot is probably QQ+. Maybe, just maybe, AK. That'll vary depending on two things though: how you (and UTG) have been playing, and how the villain's been playing.

If you've been making raises like the one in this hand with cards like AJ or TT (or worse) and showing them down, or even just making lots of re-raises and not having to show down, villain's range will be wider. He could be making this move with JJ+ / AQ+, or maybe worse, in which case you're a definite favourite against his range.

If you've been playing few hands, however, then he's probably at the top end of the range: KK+

Reads on the villain would also be useful, though in this case I think they're less meaningful than knowing how you've been playing. Even if the villain is a LAGomaniac, he'll only be making a move here if he thinks you've been playing substandard hands yourself. If you've been playing tight then we have to give him credit for a big hand here.

Anyway, long story short: if you're going to fold this kind of flop, then you really needed to fold pre-flop. And if you're going to play this flop (I suggest that it's about as good as you could have hoped for, by the way), you may as well get it all in pre-flop.
 
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