Count my mistakes :)

soccerfreakjj10

soccerfreakjj10

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What should our line have been here? Is the check raise a terrible line on the flop?

full tilt poker Game #4959377024: Daily Double - B (37007865), Table 118 - 15/30 - No Limit Hold'em - 21:15:12 ET - 2008/01/22
Seat 1: Taylor40 (1,905)
Seat 2: barnacle day (2,100)
Seat 3: Wizpiz (3,970)
Seat 4: soccerfreakjj10 (1,950)
Seat 5: BigsFl561 (2,080)
Seat 6: RiverFukdMe96 (1,745)
Seat 7: udontnopoker (1,810)
Seat 8: TiltedLunatic (2,220)
Seat 9: Wawa711 (2,170)
Wizpiz posts the small blind of 15
soccerfreakjj10 posts the big blind of 30
The button is in seat #2
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to soccerfreakjj10 [Js Jd]
BigsFl561 has 15 seconds left to act
BigsFl561 folds
RiverFukdMe96 folds
udontnopoker has 15 seconds left to act
udontnopoker calls 30
TiltedLunatic folds
Wawa711 folds
Taylor40 raises to 135
barnacle day folds
Wizpiz folds
soccerfreakjj10 calls 105 (I figured I would see the flop before anything drastic)
udontnopoker calls 105
*** FLOP *** [5c 7c 9s]
soccerfreakjj10 checks (looking to check raise all-in the continuation bet)
udontnopoker checks
Taylor40 checks
*** TURN *** [5c 7c 9s] [Kh]
soccerfreakjj10 checks
udontnopoker checks
Taylor40 checks
*** RIVER *** [5c 7c 9s Kh] [6c]
soccerfreakjj10 checks
udontnopoker bets 300
Taylor40 folds
soccerfreakjj10 calls 300 (only beat a bluff)
*** SHOW DOWN ***
udontnopoker shows [6s 7s] two pair, Sevens and Sixes
soccerfreakjj10 mucks
udontnopoker wins the pot (1,020) with two pair, Sevens and Sixes
 
OzExorcist

OzExorcist

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Depends - the flop's fairly read dependent. If you're up against a LAG player who bets pretty much every flop, then maybe it's a decent line. But this early in the tournament, I'd be surprised if you could get a solid read like that.

A straightforward value bet probably would've worked better.
 
Cheetah

Cheetah

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I bet that in hell the devil deals JJ to players all the time.

It is hard to hit a flop that you can like with JJ, especially with two players. If you have an overpair, there are at least str8 draws. Half the time you will have overcards.

When you are out of position, it is even worse. I think on the flop an argument can be made to check-raise or to bet.

On the river, a blocking bet might be in order if you intended to call a reasonable bet anyway. That way you get to set the size of the bet. And if you get re-raised, they usually have you beat(short of some total maniac with negative IQ).
 
shinedown.45

shinedown.45

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re-raise pre, c-bet flop, c-bet turn.
It may only be JJ but aggression is the key to winning
IMO
 
soccerfreakjj10

soccerfreakjj10

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But this early in the tournament, I'd be surprised if you could get a solid read like that.

I didn't have much of a read on the player. Obviously after the hand I knew he was passive, but I just assumed that he would bet the flop with his overcards.

I really disliked my play of this hand which is why I posted it. I wanted to admit to the dumb tricky plays I have been trying to make lately - that is a good example of a pot I should have won but ended up losing because I thought I could get tricky with it.

I guess the lesson learned for me from this hand is - do not check raise an opponent unless you know he is aggressive and consistently continuation bets.

I just banned myself from full tilt for 3 days to get my poker game back in order. I have been on tilt for the past two weeks. Its a miracle I haven't lost my entire bankroll.
 
F

feramorzz

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Nitpicky!

What do you mean by "could get tricky with it"? and
"I guess the lesson learned for me from this hand is - do not check raise an opponent unless you know he is aggressive and consistently continuation bets.". I don't follow. Where did you check raise, and how is this opponent being aggressive or passive?

I lack credibility to comment about tilt. :D
 
soccerfreakjj10

soccerfreakjj10

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lol. I count 4. Which in an amazing coincidence is the the exact same number as the rounds of betting.

Exactly the correct answer imo. I am re-reading all 3 Harrington on Hold 'em books during my 3 day ban from full tilt in order to get my game back together. Hopefully horrendous plays such as this will never happen again.
 
Cheetah

Cheetah

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Exactly the correct answer imo. I am re-reading all 3 Harrington on Hold 'em books during my 3 day ban from full tilt in order to get my game back together. Hopefully horrendous plays such as this will never happen again.

Never is a fairly long period of time. Perhaps you should aim for more realistic goals.:D

And the play wasn't horrendous. Calling an all-in re-raise from a tight player with 23o preflop IS horrendous.
 
soccerfreakjj10

soccerfreakjj10

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Never is a fairly long period of time. Perhaps you should aim for more realistic goals.:D

And the play wasn't horrendous. Calling an all-in re-raise from a tight player with 23o preflop IS horrendous.

I was in a very totalizing mood at the time. 'Always' and 'never' were being thrown around like baseballs at the local baseball diamond. :D

Hopefully bad plays like this will happen much much less.

And you are right, at least I didn't call an all in re-raise from a tight player wth 230 preflop. It could have been worse. :)
 
jaymfc

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so how will you play it next time ? like shine said ? I can see this hand happening to me , you have to expect the 3 1/2 times bb raiser to c-bet don't you , then when the king hit , its like crap , I blew it ,I can't bet now one of them surely has the k , sometimes I may fire a shot into the k because I'm mad at myself and need more info now , but I might end up playing it just like you did and hating myself afterward.
 
B

Bentheman87

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Another reason why it's better to just bet first is you'll gain more information. If the original preflop raiser reraises you then you can possibly get away from JJ and you'll know he has a big hand. But if you check to try to check raise, if he bets you won't know if his bet is a continuation bet or if he really has something like maybe KK.
 
soccerfreakjj10

soccerfreakjj10

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so how will you play it next time ? like shine said ? I can see this hand happening to me , you have to expect the 3 1/2 times bb raiser to c-bet don't you , then when the king hit , its like crap , I blew it ,I can't bet now one of them surely has the k , sometimes I may fire a shot into the k because I'm mad at myself and need more info now , but I might end up playing it just like you did and hating myself afterward.

What you described is exactly what happened. I expected the continuation bet, and i remember slapping my desk when he checked and the king came.

I alluded to it before, but when I flop a vulnerable hand that is most likely good on the flop, I will probably bet it out on the flop OOP UNLESS I have observed that my opponent is aggressive enough to make a continuation bet.

Also, re-raising before the flop would be a good play with the jacks there, but I would vary it up between a flat call and a re-raise about 50-50.
 
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