Could I have played better?

N.D.

N.D.

Visionary
Joined
Nov 20, 2007
Total posts
930
Sorry but for some reason hand history wouldn't let me select, let alone copy and paste.

But guys, I had A/Qos and I pushed pre-flop. The guy in the BB refused to fold(and I figured him for a middlish pair, I could live with that). Flop comes and there's a Q and a 5 in amongst the cards. I've got top pair with A and there are only two hands scaring me, trips, and KK or AA. Well by then I'm in it. So I push-push-push. Guy calls me all-in(this is post flop dangit!), and he's got 5/3 os. 3 falls on the river for him to get 2 pair.

WTF? 5/3? Hanging on to bottom pair(on the flop it was bottom pair). AAAARGH!!!

So should I have not pushed? Or should I chalk it up to bad luck? Or should I merely curse him with a pox on his house?

It's not like I was letting him have the flop for free. Not like even letting him near the turn for cheap. He freakin' calls like I dunno what. So now I'm out of the tournament. Only down by a buck-twenty because I managed to eliminate a player but this burns!

I know it happens all the time. But-but-but...

This time it happened to me. Also it wasn't some weird pre-flop all-in lotto, this was post flop. He should have folded :mad: . May he rest in pieces.

He, she, it, whatever.
 
c9h13no3

c9h13no3

Is drawing with AK
Joined
Jan 2, 2007
Total posts
8,819
Its just bad luck. But that's not the only lesson you need to take home from this.

The main lesson to realize is just how bad of luck it was. He was playing 53os. If he knows you're holding top pair at best, then his outs are a 3 (3 left in the deck) or a 5 (2 left). Assuming he has no other draw, he's roughly 20% to win the hand. 1 out of 5 times, he will beat you if he sees the turn & river. Also, many short stacks will push all in on any favorable flop. He might have thought he had you beat. And lastly, if your stack was small enough, he may have been getting good pot odds on that draw to 2-pair or trips.

Understand that top pair is a good hand, but it is still vulnerable. You did the right thing, and got your money when you were ahead. However, the fact that you will lose 1 in 5 times in something to consider, if you think you can outplay them for a situation where you'll have even better odds.

The other side of this coin applies as well. Mid or bottom pair isn't a terrible drawing hand to semi-bluff with if you can accurately place your opponent on top pair, or if you think he's only making a C-bet.

But long story short, yes, you got your money in when you were heavily favored. It was just bad luck. And you better get used to bad luck, because it will happen. Over and over again, and in far worse ways than what you've experianced.

Just think of getting sucked out as a good thing. It means you were favored in the odds, and that's the mark of a good player.
 
N.D.

N.D.

Visionary
Joined
Nov 20, 2007
Total posts
930
Well, I was in middle position but that changed after I made my initial bet. What's griping me is the lack of even a str8 draw on the board. That wouldn't be so bad. Just cuz I wouldn't call big bets on a str8 draw doesn't make it less understandable.

I'm flummoxed. Just asked someone who remembers when I first started playing, if I played that way back then. He said that I didn't. And who's to say the guy who beat me just started playing?

I'm being a sore loser because I'm confused and upset, and confused. Right after he won someone made a "donkey" comment. I don't call people that cuz I'm still a donkey in my own right. But I guess it was directed at him. Might have been towards me for all my betting, but I dunno.

Gonna feel sorry for myself for a little while. I was having fun, even when I lost hands, it was fun. Until that happened.

Oh w8 he was in the BB seat. So he didn't have the best seat. And he had the kind of hand I'd fold BB. Well to a raise. I'd check it or fold it. And if I caught bottom pair I'd fold to a bet, based on their surely having a better hand than mine.
 
mrsnake3695

mrsnake3695

I'm confused
Joined
Jun 30, 2006
Total posts
1,597
It's hard to anylize this hand without some more information. How many chips did you have?, how many did the BB have? What were the blinds at that point? were they going up soon? were there antes? You say you pushed pre-flop and then pushed all in on the flop so I'm not sure what you mean by "pushed" pre-flop. What was the bet size compared to the blinds. What point in the tourney was it? How many players left? near the bubble? already in the money? What was your table image at this point? What was BBs?

All of these are important questions and factor into the decision making process. If you are only considering your cards and the result then you won't get but so much better.

Having said all that he could have been a total donk. And believe me they are at all levels. I remember a hand in a $100 MTT about half way in where I had QQ UTG and raised 4 times BB. All folded except the BB who had slighty less than I did. Flop came 3 7 10 rainbow. BB checked and I bet 3/4 the pot, BB reraised all-in. I figured at the time that there were more hands that make that bet that I beat than beat me (I'm only worried about a set_ so I call. Villan has 2 3 OS and turns a 2 for two pair to beat me. When I asked him how he makes that play he said that he "put" me on AK, like that was the only hand that would raise pre-flop UTG. So you see you get all kinds and it's hard to figure what people are thinking sometimes.

In the future try to put more accurate information into your thread and we can answer with better anylisis.
 
N.D.

N.D.

Visionary
Joined
Nov 20, 2007
Total posts
930
Sorry. It's just that I couldn't even copy and paste the history. So angry it's fuzzy. But I do remember that the blinds weren't huge yet. Nowhere near the bubble. We were about even but when all was said and done he wound up more than doubled because there were a couple of pre-flop callers and one straggler who held on to what I think was 200 chips for some reason.

Oh well. I'll learn. Sooner or later. I'll learn.
 
N.D.

N.D.

Visionary
Joined
Nov 20, 2007
Total posts
930
Okay, just dug up a hand history I actually managed to save. The situation's almost the same except it's a ring game and not a tournament, same number of people in though, except the 3rd person didn't fold it's kind of old though...



bparkergwu is at seat 0 with $0 (sitting out).
NolitaDenise is at seat 1 with $6.05.
ShushuPay is at seat 2 with $10.28.
descente is at seat 4 with $11.83.
lehmanl50 is at seat 5 with $3.32.
The button is at seat 5.

NolitaDenise posts the small blind of $.05.
ShushuPay posts the big blind of $.10.

NolitaDenise: Jh Qs
ShushuPay: -- --
descente: -- --
lehmanl50: -- --

Pre-flop:

descente folds. lehmanl50 calls. NolitaDenise
calls. ShushuPay checks.

Flop (board: Ts 8h 9c):

NolitaDenise bets $.30. ShushuPay calls. lehmanl50
calls.

Turn (board: Ts 8h 9c 6s):

NolitaDenise bets $1.20. ShushuPay calls. lehmanl50
goes all-in for $2.92. NolitaDenise goes all-in for
$5.65. ShushuPay calls.

River (board: Ts 8h 9c 6s 3s):

(no action in this round)




Showdown:

NolitaDenise shows Jh Qs.
NolitaDenise has Jh Qs Ts 8h 9c: straight, queen high.
ShushuPay mucks cards.
(ShushuPay has 7d Td.)
lehmanl50 shows 7h Qh.
lehmanl50 has 7h Ts 8h 9c 6s: straight, ten high.


Hand #45623653-5114 Summary:

$.76 is raked from a total pot of $15.42.
$.49 is raked from the main pot of $9.96.
$.27 is raked from side pot #1 of $5.46.
NolitaDenise wins the main pot $9.47 with straight, queen high.
NolitaDenise wins the side pot $5.19 with straight, queen high.

Anyway, now it's kind of in perspective. More often the latter will happen, I'll win. But more often than winning a huge ammount of money, I'll actually win a small ammount(that's what I normally see).

I only saved this one because the person who didn't have a straight had me baffled. They still do. Maybe they were having a bad night. Oh yeah and I just called pre-flop because I was still learning about ring games and had a bad tendency to overbet just all the time. I'm better now but still not great. This was a hugely flukey hand. I tried to keep playing but was too distracted by trying to figure out what happened in the hand. It was so strange.
 
c9h13no3

c9h13no3

Is drawing with AK
Joined
Jan 2, 2007
Total posts
8,819
At lower stakes, you're gonna see all kinds of donkey-ism. Just take what they give you. If the table is super weak-tight, then make raises of 5bb's and C-bet every flop. If the table is a bunch of maniacs/calling stations, then just make hands and charge them pot sized bets when they want to see your cards.

There's really very little thought in poker at most NL low stakes tables on the internet (in my experience).

Also, both of your opponents had a weaker straight than you.
 
N.D.

N.D.

Visionary
Joined
Nov 20, 2007
Total posts
930
I get that they called to try and get their straights. I just don't get why they didn't see a higher straight, or any straight b4 that. Ya know? Cuz I woulda been thinking "trips or straight, they gotta have trips or a straight", if that makes sense.
 
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