Check out my play here - right thought pattern???

[Ronaldadio]

Hi guys. I`m not being results orientated here, but my rough though pattern in in red during the hand. I`m trying to understand if my thought pattern is about right. I had just taken a hit, my trip J`s had been bust on the river by guy playing with sooted monsters (9+4 clubs I think)Comments, as ever, appreciated.



PokerStars Game #8533431702: Tournament #43469280, $5.00+$0.50 Hold'em No Limit - Level I (10/20) - 2007/02/20 - 08:51:28 (ET) Table '43469280 1' 9-max Seat #9 is the button Seat 1: ronaldadio (1040 in chips) Seat 2: The Horroris (1050 in chips) Seat 3: vanbizzo (1470 in chips) Seat 4: two coats (1250 in chips) Seat 5: TheMoneybear (1770 in chips) Seat 6: JOKERZ04 (1830 in chips) Seat 7: myaraya (1770 in chips) Seat 8: Kingplatus (1440 in chips) Seat 9: Leo97 (1880 in chips)
ronaldadio: posts small blind 10
The Horroris: posts big blind 20
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to ronaldadio [5c Ac]
vanbizzo: folds
two coats: calls 20
TheMoneybear: folds
JOKERZ04: calls 20
myaraya: calls 20
Kingplatus: folds
Leo97: folds
ronaldadio: calls 10
The Horroris: checks
*** FLOP *** [Jc 2c 2s]
ronaldadio: bets 100
The Horroris: raises 100 to 200
two coats: folds
JOKERZ04: folds
myaraya: raises 100 to 300
ronaldadio: calls 200 (Why did I call? Pot odds. Was not worried about FH at this stage because of the way the betting went. Having said this, I was close to folding because it was early in the game)
The Horroris: calls 100
*** TURN *** [Jc 2c 2s] [6h]
ronaldadio: checks
The Horroris: bets 200
myaraya: raises 200 to 400
ronaldadio: folds
(Why did I fold. Pot odds were about right. If I had missed I would have been down and out. Also, was I drawing dead to a FH? The betting made me think it was now possible one of them had a 2, so my Ace was not an out)
The Horroris: calls 200
*** RIVER *** [Jc 2c 2s 6h] [6c]
The Horroris: bets 330 and is all-in
myaraya: calls 330
*** SHOW DOWN ***
The Horroris: shows [Jh 5s] (two pair, Jacks and Sixes)
myaraya: shows [Qs Jd] (two pair, Jacks and Sixes - Queen kicker) myaraya collected 2460 from pot
(my gut feeling before I folded was that one had a J, the other had a 2. As it turned out, they both had a J)
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 2460 | Rake 0
Board [Jc 2c 2s 6h 6c]
Seat 1: ronaldadio (small blind) folded on the Turn Seat 2: The Horroris (big blind) showed [Jh 5s] and lost with two pair, Jacks and Sixes Seat 3: vanbizzo folded before Flop (didn't bet) Seat 4: two coats folded on the Flop Seat 5: TheMoneybear folded before Flop (didn't bet) Seat 6: JOKERZ04 folded on the Flop Seat 7: myaraya showed [Qs Jd] and won (2460) with two pair, Jacks and Sixes Seat 8: Kingplatus folded before Flop (didn't bet) Seat 9: Leo97 (button) folded before Flop (didn't bet)

 

[alan1983]

Lol hadnt noticed flush draw at first.

I think you were right to fold turn. there were re-raises twice now, flush is only 16% to hit on river thats if it wins the hand.

Plus in tourney and sit n go even if u have the right odds, sometimes its better not to chase and look for better opportunities to put ur chips in.

 

[Ronaldadio]

Lol hadnt noticed flush draw at first.

I think you were right to fold turn. there were re-raises twice now, flush is only 16% to hit on river thats if it wins the hand.

Plus in tourney and sit n go even if u have the right odds, sometimes its better not to chase and look for better opportunities to put ur chips in.

I think I did, just about. I was putting 200 in to a pot with 700 in. With the other guy calling I would have put 200 in to a pot containing 1100. I could be wrong.

You second point is the main reason I eventually folded.

 

[alan1983]

Yeah when i first said u didnt have odds to call i didnt see the flush lol. I thought u ment u were drawin for the ace. I edited it out.

 

[Dorkus Malorkus]

Fold the flop. Calling off such a large portion of your stack with a flush draw on a paired board at this point in a tournament with the added possibility that the original raiser will come back over the top is, in my opinion, pretty bad.

Not sure I like the flop lead (I'd like it a lot more if in position), but it's not absolutely horrible on such a raggedy board. I don't think you're losing everyone most of the time though - bear in mind it's a $5 MTT and people will be limping after a limper with all sorts of crap (and the BBs range is almost any hand). In situations like this, with many in the pot and especially on a paired but not hugely dangerous board (QTT is a lot scarier than J22, obvviously), I want to try and make my flush as cheaply as possible, and I don't think leading OOP for a pot-sized bet is the best way to go about that.

You simply can't make pure pot odds calls like this for such a large portion of your stack in tournaments because losing a certain amount of chips hurts you more than gaining that same amount of chips helps you.

I`m not being results orientated here

Whenever anyone says this, they're likely to be being results-oriented. It's like someone saying "This isn't a scam...". If the club doesn't come on the river, this hand doesn't get posted.

Oh and please read the sticky in here about thread titles.

 

[Ronaldadio]

Fold the flop. Calling off such a large portion of your stack with a flush draw on a paired board at this point in a tournament with the added possibility that the original raiser will come back over the top is, in my opinion, pretty bad.

I`m about 60% agreeing here!!! I did have the odds to call after the raise, but I agree, as you can see in my post, that I was close to folding here.

Not sure I like the flop lead (I'd like it a lot more if in position), but it's not absolutely horrible on such a raggedy board. I don't think you're losing everyone most of the time though - bear in mind it's a $5 MTT and people will be limping after a limper with all sorts of crap (and the BBs range is almost any hand). In situations like this, with many in the pot and especially on a paired but not hugely dangerous board (QTT is a lot scarier than J22, obvviously), I want to try and make my flush as cheaply as possible, and I don't think leading OOP for a pot-sized bet is the best way to go about that.

Valid point about seeing my flush cheap. But I would not get very good value for hitting my flush IMO. On the other hand, if I had checked the other two would probably have checked. I probably caused the raise and reraise

You simply can't make pure pot odds calls like this for such a large portion of your stack in tournaments because losing a certain amount of chips hurts you more than gaining that same amount of chips helps you.

This is the reason I folded when I did. I accept on balance I should not have been in for the turn.

Whenever anyone says this, they're likely to be being results-oriented. It's like someone saying "This isn't a scam...". If the club doesn't come on the river, this hand doesn't get posted.

We will have to agree to disagree here Chris. The reason I mentioned `results orientated` is because in the past I have been accused of this. The fact the club hit on the river was just one of those things. I was more concerned with my play to when I folded, not the river.

Oh and please read the sticky in here about thread titles.

U lost me with this one...can u explain I can`t even work the quote thing!!!

 

[alan1983]

The flop was gonna get bet.

Those guys raised and re-raised with just the jack, what makes you think theyd have checked flop if you hadnt bet?

 

[Ronaldadio]

The flop was gonna get bet.

Those guys raised and re-raised with just the jack, what makes you think theyd have checked flop if you hadnt bet?

If seen it happen before - the wave effect!!! More to the point, if I had not lead out it would have been easier to fold. I would only have been folding my blind.