Check out my play here - right thought pattern???

Ronaldadio

Ronaldadio

Legend
Hi guys. I`m not being results orientated here, but my rough though pattern in in red during the hand. I`m trying to understand if my thought pattern is about right. I had just taken a hit, my trip J`s had been bust on the river by guy playing with sooted monsters (9+4 clubs I think)Comments, as ever, appreciated.



PokerStars Game #8533431702: Tournament #43469280, $5.00+$0.50 Hold'em No Limit - Level I (10/20) - 2007/02/20 - 08:51:28 (ET) Table '43469280 1' 9-max Seat #9 is the button Seat 1: ronaldadio (1040 in chips) Seat 2: The Horroris (1050 in chips) Seat 3: vanbizzo (1470 in chips) Seat 4: two coats (1250 in chips) Seat 5: TheMoneybear (1770 in chips) Seat 6: JOKERZ04 (1830 in chips) Seat 7: myaraya (1770 in chips) Seat 8: Kingplatus (1440 in chips) Seat 9: Leo97 (1880 in chips)
ronaldadio: posts small blind 10
The Horroris: posts big blind 20
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to ronaldadio [5c Ac]
vanbizzo: folds
two coats: calls 20
TheMoneybear: folds
JOKERZ04: calls 20
myaraya: calls 20
Kingplatus: folds
Leo97: folds
ronaldadio: calls 10
The Horroris: checks
*** FLOP *** [Jc 2c 2s]
ronaldadio: bets 100
The Horroris: raises 100 to 200
two coats: folds
JOKERZ04: folds
myaraya: raises 100 to 300
ronaldadio: calls 200 (Why did I call? Pot odds. Was not worried about FH at this stage because of the way the betting went. Having said this, I was close to folding because it was early in the game)
The Horroris: calls 100
*** TURN *** [Jc 2c 2s] [6h]
ronaldadio: checks
The Horroris: bets 200
myaraya: raises 200 to 400
ronaldadio: folds
(Why did I fold. Pot odds were about right. If I had missed I would have been down and out. Also, was I drawing dead to a FH? The betting made me think it was now possible one of them had a 2, so my Ace was not an out)
The Horroris: calls 200
*** RIVER *** [Jc 2c 2s 6h] [6c]
The Horroris: bets 330 and is all-in
myaraya: calls 330
*** SHOW DOWN ***
The Horroris: shows [Jh 5s] (two pair, Jacks and Sixes)
myaraya: shows [Qs Jd] (two pair, Jacks and Sixes - Queen kicker) myaraya collected 2460 from pot
(my gut feeling before I folded was that one had a J, the other had a 2. As it turned out, they both had a J)
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 2460 | Rake 0
Board [Jc 2c 2s 6h 6c]
Seat 1: ronaldadio (small blind) folded on the Turn Seat 2: The Horroris (big blind) showed [Jh 5s] and lost with two pair, Jacks and Sixes Seat 3: vanbizzo folded before Flop (didn't bet) Seat 4: two coats folded on the Flop Seat 5: TheMoneybear folded before Flop (didn't bet) Seat 6: JOKERZ04 folded on the Flop Seat 7: myaraya showed [Qs Jd] and won (2460) with two pair, Jacks and Sixes Seat 8: Kingplatus folded before Flop (didn't bet) Seat 9: Leo97 (button) folded before Flop (didn't bet)
 
A

alan1983

Visionary
Lol hadnt noticed flush draw at first.

I think you were right to fold turn. there were re-raises twice now, flush is only 16% to hit on river thats if it wins the hand.

Plus in tourney and sit n go even if u have the right odds, sometimes its better not to chase and look for better opportunities to put ur chips in.
 
Ronaldadio

Ronaldadio

Legend
Lol hadnt noticed flush draw at first.

I think you were right to fold turn. there were re-raises twice now, flush is only 16% to hit on river thats if it wins the hand.

Plus in tourney and sit n go even if u have the right odds, sometimes its better not to chase and look for better opportunities to put ur chips in.

I think I did, just about. I was putting 200 in to a pot with 700 in. With the other guy calling I would have put 200 in to a pot containing 1100. I could be wrong.

You second point is the main reason I eventually folded.
 
A

alan1983

Visionary
Yeah when i first said u didnt have odds to call i didnt see the flush lol. I thought u ment u were drawin for the ace. I edited it out.
 
Dorkus Malorkus

Dorkus Malorkus

HELLO INTERNET
Fold the flop. Calling off such a large portion of your stack with a flush draw on a paired board at this point in a tournament with the added possibility that the original raiser will come back over the top is, in my opinion, pretty bad.

Not sure I like the flop lead (I'd like it a lot more if in position), but it's not absolutely horrible on such a raggedy board. I don't think you're losing everyone most of the time though - bear in mind it's a $5 MTT and people will be limping after a limper with all sorts of crap (and the BBs range is almost any hand). In situations like this, with many in the pot and especially on a paired but not hugely dangerous board (QTT is a lot scarier than J22, obvviously), I want to try and make my flush as cheaply as possible, and I don't think leading OOP for a pot-sized bet is the best way to go about that.

You simply can't make pure pot odds calls like this for such a large portion of your stack in tournaments because losing a certain amount of chips hurts you more than gaining that same amount of chips helps you.

I`m not being results orientated here

Whenever anyone says this, they're likely to be being results-oriented. It's like someone saying "This isn't a scam...". If the club doesn't come on the river, this hand doesn't get posted. ;)

Oh and please read the sticky in here about thread titles. :)
 
Ronaldadio

Ronaldadio

Legend
Fold the flop. Calling off such a large portion of your stack with a flush draw on a paired board at this point in a tournament with the added possibility that the original raiser will come back over the top is, in my opinion, pretty bad.
I`m about 60% agreeing here!!! I did have the odds to call after the raise, but I agree, as you can see in my post, that I was close to folding here.

Not sure I like the flop lead (I'd like it a lot more if in position), but it's not absolutely horrible on such a raggedy board. I don't think you're losing everyone most of the time though - bear in mind it's a $5 MTT and people will be limping after a limper with all sorts of crap (and the BBs range is almost any hand). In situations like this, with many in the pot and especially on a paired but not hugely dangerous board (QTT is a lot scarier than J22, obvviously), I want to try and make my flush as cheaply as possible, and I don't think leading OOP for a pot-sized bet is the best way to go about that.
Valid point about seeing my flush cheap. But I would not get very good value for hitting my flush IMO. On the other hand, if I had checked the other two would probably have checked. I probably caused the raise and reraise :(

You simply can't make pure pot odds calls like this for such a large portion of your stack in tournaments because losing a certain amount of chips hurts you more than gaining that same amount of chips helps you.
This is the reason I folded when I did. I accept on balance I should not have been in for the turn.



Whenever anyone says this, they're likely to be being results-oriented. It's like someone saying "This isn't a scam...". If the club doesn't come on the river, this hand doesn't get posted. ;)
We will have to agree to disagree here Chris. The reason I mentioned `results orientated` is because in the past I have been accused of this. The fact the club hit on the river was just one of those things. I was more concerned with my play to when I folded, not the river. :p

Oh and please read the sticky in here about thread titles. :)
U lost me with this one...can u explain :confused: I can`t even work the quote thing!!!
 
Last edited by a moderator:
A

alan1983

Visionary
The flop was gonna get bet.

Those guys raised and re-raised with just the jack, what makes you think theyd have checked flop if you hadnt bet?
 
Ronaldadio

Ronaldadio

Legend
The flop was gonna get bet.

Those guys raised and re-raised with just the jack, what makes you think theyd have checked flop if you hadnt bet?

If seen it happen before - the wave effect!!! More to the point, if I had not lead out it would have been easier to fold. I would only have been folding my blind.
 
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