BrentD22
Rock Star
Silver Level
Context - local poker league (live play) with decent prizes for weekly games, better prizes for monthly games, and really great prizes for quarterly games.
We are in the 3rd level of our monthly tournament. The blinds are 15 mins (ya quick) and the blinds are 200/400. My table wasn't that great. A lot of players that think their good although somehow play almost every hand. The other 2 players are begginers that play every hand and call almost all bets. Stacks are still deap I had just over 20,000 and Larry had about 18,000.
UTG: Larry (begginer)
BB: Bob - (understand the basics)
D: Me (top player in the league per votes cast by other players, points, wins ect.)
UTG: Larry calls 400 (he never raises only calls on each street) Ac3d
Dealer: Me raises to 1200 As10s
BB: Bob calls 800 - 1200
UTG: Larry calls the 800 - 1200
Pot - 3800
FLOP: KcQd4s
BB: Checks
UTG: Checks
D: bets 1200
BB: FOLDS
UTG: Calls 1200
Pot: 4800
Turn: 3c
UTG: Checks
D: Bet 2000
UTG: Calls 2000
Pot: 8800
River: 7d
UTG: Checks
D: Bets 4000
UTG: Calls 4000
Total pot size - 16800
UTG: Shows A3o wins 16800 with pair of 3's
D: Shows As10s was stupid enough to bluff the unbluffable calling machine
Now we all know that unless someone had a great read they could never call A3 at on any street that I bet, but I learned a really good lesson here. Never bluff begginers that call, call, call, call, call... I knew he was a calling machine. I put him on A4 from the flop and didn't think he could continue to call unless he improves to aces up or trip 4's or something. He was even weaker, but that doesn't matter. What I learned was so huge. I learned it's just not worth playing big pots past the flop vs. bad players unless I have a really good hand or draw. AND never bluff these types of players, unless you have a good read on the guy and he has NOTHING. When I say nothing he can't even have ace high cause these kind of players call with ace high very often.
Now you might say this isn't correct and please explain if you think I'm wrong I'm trying to learn more about these types of players. My view on this hand and player afterwards was that the fact that it was early in the tournament, the pot was huge, and the player calls lite very often that my play was the bad play. Larry's play calling with a little pair of 3's with ace kicker with all over cards was standard for him (and other players like him). It was standard for a player like that. I played the same way I'd play a better player. This was wrong for so many reasons.
I was on tilt a little just cause I knew that if my read was correct (which it was) there was no way he could call. I knew that any real player couldn't call. Of course I made the mistake of doing this to a player that isn't good and calls with ace high in many instances.
My new way of playing vs. players like this from now on is if they call my pre-flop raise and I don't connect with the flop check the flop, check the turn, and then bluff the river. This way the pot isn't huge and a small bet/bluff might work, but if it doesn't I won't have had to put 8000+ into the pot on a bluff that was called by low pair. These kinds of players only bet if the hit and check when they don't hit. Now if I check the flop and turn and they do as well there is very little chance they had anything. When the river comes out maybe they connect and it's up to me to get that read. If I have position and they check I would then bet 1/3rd the pot. If he bet I would fold. If I don't have position I have to then get a good read (of course I was putting him on a range the hole way) I have to access weather his range included what ever card came on the river. If I don't think the river card helped him then I'd bluff at it, but if it might have helped him then I'd just check and hope I have high card.
I know that mixing up your play is required, but vs. very poor players I don't think it's as important because they won't pay attention to things like this.
Can someone let me know that they think about this stragedy?
We are in the 3rd level of our monthly tournament. The blinds are 15 mins (ya quick) and the blinds are 200/400. My table wasn't that great. A lot of players that think their good although somehow play almost every hand. The other 2 players are begginers that play every hand and call almost all bets. Stacks are still deap I had just over 20,000 and Larry had about 18,000.
UTG: Larry (begginer)
BB: Bob - (understand the basics)
D: Me (top player in the league per votes cast by other players, points, wins ect.)
UTG: Larry calls 400 (he never raises only calls on each street) Ac3d
Dealer: Me raises to 1200 As10s
BB: Bob calls 800 - 1200
UTG: Larry calls the 800 - 1200
Pot - 3800
FLOP: KcQd4s
BB: Checks
UTG: Checks
D: bets 1200
BB: FOLDS
UTG: Calls 1200
Pot: 4800
Turn: 3c
UTG: Checks
D: Bet 2000
UTG: Calls 2000
Pot: 8800
River: 7d
UTG: Checks
D: Bets 4000
UTG: Calls 4000
Total pot size - 16800
UTG: Shows A3o wins 16800 with pair of 3's
D: Shows As10s was stupid enough to bluff the unbluffable calling machine
Now we all know that unless someone had a great read they could never call A3 at on any street that I bet, but I learned a really good lesson here. Never bluff begginers that call, call, call, call, call... I knew he was a calling machine. I put him on A4 from the flop and didn't think he could continue to call unless he improves to aces up or trip 4's or something. He was even weaker, but that doesn't matter. What I learned was so huge. I learned it's just not worth playing big pots past the flop vs. bad players unless I have a really good hand or draw. AND never bluff these types of players, unless you have a good read on the guy and he has NOTHING. When I say nothing he can't even have ace high cause these kind of players call with ace high very often.
Now you might say this isn't correct and please explain if you think I'm wrong I'm trying to learn more about these types of players. My view on this hand and player afterwards was that the fact that it was early in the tournament, the pot was huge, and the player calls lite very often that my play was the bad play. Larry's play calling with a little pair of 3's with ace kicker with all over cards was standard for him (and other players like him). It was standard for a player like that. I played the same way I'd play a better player. This was wrong for so many reasons.
I was on tilt a little just cause I knew that if my read was correct (which it was) there was no way he could call. I knew that any real player couldn't call. Of course I made the mistake of doing this to a player that isn't good and calls with ace high in many instances.
My new way of playing vs. players like this from now on is if they call my pre-flop raise and I don't connect with the flop check the flop, check the turn, and then bluff the river. This way the pot isn't huge and a small bet/bluff might work, but if it doesn't I won't have had to put 8000+ into the pot on a bluff that was called by low pair. These kinds of players only bet if the hit and check when they don't hit. Now if I check the flop and turn and they do as well there is very little chance they had anything. When the river comes out maybe they connect and it's up to me to get that read. If I have position and they check I would then bet 1/3rd the pot. If he bet I would fold. If I don't have position I have to then get a good read (of course I was putting him on a range the hole way) I have to access weather his range included what ever card came on the river. If I don't think the river card helped him then I'd bluff at it, but if it might have helped him then I'd just check and hope I have high card.
I know that mixing up your play is required, but vs. very poor players I don't think it's as important because they won't pay attention to things like this.
Can someone let me know that they think about this stragedy?